Comments for Women's Exposition 'Woo'-fully Sad at http://www.randi.org/site , comment 1 to 29 out of 20 comments http://www.randi.org/site Fri, 24 May 2013 19:36:02 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19710 [quote]HDMI is a communications [i]protacol[/i] with a specific arrangement of pins. [/quote] Or "protocol" even. - Steel Rat Sat, 13 Nov 2010 12:15:57 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19606 To other commenters talking about their own experiences with chiropractic, I can only say that my own experience has been entirely other. I only know four chiropractors, so I will admit I have a limited experience, but my experience has been 99.9% contrary to the experiences reported here. Out of the four chiropractors I know (all of whom have done work on me, though only two on a regular basis), I have never once heard the word "subluxation." Instead, I hear things like, "A rib head is out of place," or, "A vertebrae in your neck is out of alignment," (a bad car wreck left me with chronic back and neck issues for quite some time). I have tested my regular chiropractor on several occasions and found that he is very accurate in finding sources of pain in my back, even if I do not mention them. I have never heard any of these practitioners say a single word about treating anything but structural issues with the body (incidentally, to commenters who implied no difference between chiropractic and massage work, I would say that there is a fairly significant difference between the skeletal and muscular systems. Some chiropractors train in massage therapy, and vice-versa, but the two are very different disciplines). My current chiropractor was a paramedic before he went into chiropractic work, and his body knowledge is exceptional. Now, I did mention that my experience was only 99.9% contrary to the experiences reported here, but the one area in which our experiences overlap is hearsay, only. I know a person who claimed my current chiropractor told them 10 or 15 years ago that he could cure a cold by adjusting them. If he once claimed this, all I can say is that he learned from his mistake, because he does so no longer. I'm sure I will get downvoted again for "being too credulous," but hopefully the real skeptics will see that I treat these issues seriously. I come from a long line of skeptics willing to test absolutely everything, and willing to suspend judgment one way or another until that testing has been done. - thain1982 Sat, 06 Nov 2010 06:27:22 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19604 @Caller X: First off, my apologies for replying so late. I thought I had checked the "subscribe via email" box, but apparently did not, and I happened to wonder today if there had been any replies and saw that, indeed, there had been quite a few. Among other things, massage therapy is effective in treating a pulled and/or torn ACL, tennis elbow, and serious shoulder and back issues for which doctors only recommend costly and invasive surgery that runs a very real risk of leaving permanent and painful scar tissue buildup around the treated area (sorry, I don't have clinical terms at hand - my wife's aunt was recommended surgery on her shoulder by her doctor several years ago for an issue which she has effectively treated with massage therapy). My wife is a massage therapist, so I have both seen and experienced its effectiveness. THAT SAID: Are there therapists who are more "woo" than "work"? Of course there are, as is the case in any field that is only just beginning to experience actual regulation (until recently, many states required that massage therapists hold nothing but an adult entertainment license - it has taken years of work for the professionals in the business to break that stereotype even enough to lift that ludicrous requirement), but there are many therapists who have been trained with consummate professionalism, and as regulation and oversight of the practice increases, so, too, does the professionalism within the field. - thain1982 Sat, 06 Nov 2010 06:08:53 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19575 I've had very good experiences with the particular chiropractor that my family goes to, but we had to weed out a LOT of charlatans to find her. Of course, I think the reason it works is because she DOES "completely toss Palmer's theory and stick to using chiropractic treatment for things which happen to benefit from the physical manhandling in ways unrelated to the core belief of chiropractic adjustment," as ConspicuousCarl said. For example, when my pelvis was out of alignment because of my bad posture (as in one hip was literally a couple of inches higher than the other), she "physically manhandled" it back into place. My dad has some issues with the vertebrae in his lower back that she fixes every once in a while, too; essentially it's a hereditary problem that causes his vertebrae to slip out of alignment more easily than other people's. Of course, she never claims to be able to fix diseases or anything, just to realign bones that are being tugged slightly out of place by tense muscles. She asks us questions and makes a thorough examination (both visual and tactile) to figure out what's wrong and what might have caused it, explains while she's working exactly what she's doing and why, and generally fixes things in one meeting (two for stubborn problems, or once every few months or so for recurring problems like my dad's back issues). This is why I can say with complete confidence that she's not a quack. It actually surprised me to learn that there's such a thing as a chiropractor who says their craft is anything other than fixing purely skeletal/muscular issues. But when I looked it up, fixing disease through skeletal scrunching is what the theory of chiropractic seems to be about... So my guess is that there are people who call themselves "chiropractors" who follow this theory, and other people who have adopted the term "chiropractic" to mean "fixing skeletal misalignments to reduce physical pain caused directly by the skeletal misalignments" because it refers to a similar sort of activity. @Caller X: Specifically, the kind of thing chiropractic (as practiced by my own chiropractor) is meant to fix is the pain caused by muscle tension that is tugging a bone slightly out of alignment. For example, shoulder pain caused by carrying a heavy purse frequently slung over one's shoulder. The muscles around the shoulder joint become tense and contract, pulling on the shoulder blade or on the arm bone and tugging it slightly out of joint; this in turn causes the muscles to become even more tense and causes pain. A non-quack chiropractor will diagnose this by asking questions of the patient and feeling the muscles with his or her hands. The chiropractor will then break the cycle of tugging causing tension causing more tugging causing more tension by using his/er hands to physically stretch out and relax the affected muscles with a very focused massage and pressing the affected bone back into place once the muscles are relaxed enough. Then he/she will send the patient back home with an admonition to cease the sort of activity that caused the problem in the first place or do it differently to cause less stress on their muscles. So I guess it's not really an "injury" that's being fixed, although the kind of muscle tension that causes the kinds of problems that chiropractors fix might be caused by an injury. - Twyll Wed, 03 Nov 2010 10:35:44 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19558 Exactly how did it all go "south" and tho not wasted, as it proves the kind of woo men not only get into ie cables best quality etc ;D they just can't stop themselves. The speed and shear poetry of how the " conversation cables" took on an identity that was so wooy and almost completely took over, this forum page. 8)As far as Women's Expositions go until it is sorted, i refuse to put myself through such mind numbing,cretinous of no use to man or beast gatherings. Do that and keep mentally healthy. - mercurylass Tue, 02 Nov 2010 05:12:43 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19514 There's only SO long women can hold a man's interest. - jensfiederer Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:05:41 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19513 ...was how a discussion on women's expositions and woo diverged into a debate on audio/video cabling. - Baloney Thu, 28 Oct 2010 09:01:26 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19511 [quote]You do understand the difference between analog and digital, right? It has nothing to do with the cable. HDMI is a communications protacol with a specific arrangement of pins. The cable is just a bunch of wires which could just as easily be used for audio[/quote]. I do understand the differences between digital and analog, do you? Do you also understand what an HDMI cable is and what it is used for? HDMI does carry audio, digital audio. If you are trying to say that an HDMI cable could just as easily be used for [i]analog [/i]audio, you are ignoring the point that you would have to rewire either the connector of the cable or the analog audio output on the source to do so. It is reasonable to assume an HDMI cable would be used exclusively for digital A/V data, not analog. Digital signals are less sensitive to signal quality because the data is discrete, whereas analog signals are more sensitive to signal quality because they are not. In digital, either the bit "gets there" or it doesn't, and in many cases, ECC can compensate for lost bits. It doesn't matter if it is a strong bit or a weak bit- a bit is a bit. In analog, the data is the entire wave, if you change the wave, you change the data. So, without even worrying about the fact that much testing has been done to show that even for analog audio, there is no humanly perceptible difference in audio quality between good 12 gauge lamp cord and $500 audio cables, that original comment that [quote]Gold-plated HDMI-cables at $500/meter that somehow, magically, give "open, clear sound". (despite the fact that any random functioning cable will give bit-by-bit perfect transmission) [/quote] was essentially spot on. - Karl_Withakay Thu, 28 Oct 2010 04:48:32 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19503 The cable might not KNOW it is digital,but the signaling that is going on over it is. The reason he would point out the cable (if you want to be picky, the USE of the cable) wasn't analog is that in analog signaling a tiny difference in the signal is carried through (and often amplified) in the output. In digital signaling, the signal is all or nothing - a difference in the signal has no effect on the output unless it breaks through the threshold and produces a completely wrong signal (and THAT is usually detected by redundancy in the information). - jensfiederer Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:16:35 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19502 [quote] Except that HDMI (the type of cables specified) is not analog, and pretty much any HDMI cable that meets the specs (required to have the logo on the package) will generally produce the same audio & video quality. Thus the commentator's point that there is no reason to pay for premium $500 HDMI cables. Overpriced audio and video cables (for analog or digital use) are another form of woo. [/quote] You do understand the difference between analog and digital, right? It has nothing to do with the cable. HDMI is a communications protacol with a specific arrangement of pins. The cable is just a bunch of wires which could just as easily be used for audio. - Caller X Wed, 27 Oct 2010 16:01:18 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19497 Dude, gender is about 90 percent ideology, and the assertion that women are irrational is about 90 percent of that 90 percent, and has been so for eons. So, what's surprising here? Also, I wouldn't like to have my life depend on the scientific character of what most men believe. - Michael Dawson Wed, 27 Oct 2010 10:59:19 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19490 [quote]Don't know what you mean by "bit-by-bit" when audio cables are analog, and parallel cables are less useful as clock speeds have increased, because "random functioning cables transmit data at different rates. If it makes you happy to say that, fine. Bazinga. [/quote] Except that HDMI (the type of cables specified) is not analog, and pretty much any HDMI cable that meets the specs (required to have the logo on the package) will generally produce the same audio & video quality. Thus the commentator's point that there is no reason to pay for premium $500 HDMI cables. Overpriced audio and video cables (for analog or digital use) are another form of woo. - Karl_Withakay Wed, 27 Oct 2010 04:10:14 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19488 I think next year you should set up a booth selling amulets that prevent gullibility. They're made of "crockoshite". - Blondin Wed, 27 Oct 2010 02:34:37 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19487 Hey, dviola, As an experiment I tried eating my own. It's really not as bad as one would think. Then I voted your comment up. I did not click the "report abuse" link as I suspect others have already. The only thing that gets your posts pulled is talking about magicians having sexually explicit conversations with underage boys and several stories to explain it. Still, your Mabus posts have grown tiresome. - Caller X Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:01:04 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19485 [quote]I sure as hell would not go to a "men's exposition" - those actually do exist, though they're typically named somewhat differently. They're -also- full of woo, and additionally, they push a extremely limiting, clicheed stereotype of what it means to be male. Apparently, to be male, you must be interested in watching sports on TV, while drinking beer. Motorsport and weight-lifting, scantily-clad females and fishing. Also, you must spend ridicolous amounts on technological-sounding magic-gadgets that does unphysical things. Gold-plated HDMI-cables at $500/meter that somehow, magically, give "open, clear sound". (despite the fact that any random functioning cable will give bit-by-bit perfect transmission) [/quote] Don't know what you mean by "bit-by-bit" when audio cables are analog, and parallel cables are less useful as clock speeds have increased, because "random functioning cables transmit data at different rates. If it makes you happy to say that, fine. Bazinga. No, to be male, you must go to an Iron John retreat and sit around in a circle while (not the abhorrent English "whilst") drumming. - Caller X Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:01:10 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19484 Yes something like whatstheharm.net but I was thinking that instead of news stories, users would post personal stories in their own words. Something like the websites started by disgruntled employees of particular companies - Zoroaster Tue, 26 Oct 2010 13:18:53 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19482 Like agrajag, I'd be suspicious of the "quality" of attendants at a function motivated by as weak an attractor as similarity of sex. But I'd bet the woo would be even HIGHER at a conference of Virgos. Not Geminis, though, we're too rational :-) - jensfiederer Tue, 26 Oct 2010 10:21:46 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19481 My first thoughts when reading the beginning of the post were not that perhaps women may be more inclined to certain types of woo that men, but that people who attend these types of shows may be more inclined to certain types of woo than others, which is what you seem to conclude in your 4th paragraph. I would guess that many of the people who attend these types of shows are people who are looking for something they don't already have- solutions, answers, and new ideas for life, career, the universe, and everything. It's almost rhetorical to suggest that someone going to such a show is likely to be inherently open to new ideas, and it's not a stretch to imagine someone going to such a show seeking new ideas and answers may be less than skeptical of them. Essentially, you're going to a giant sales pitch & promotion event; you're volunteering to be marketed to. Why bother going if you're not interested in being potentially sold on something? - Karl_Withakay Tue, 26 Oct 2010 09:16:49 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19479 "As a [i]former[/i] registered nurse..." Is there a story here that you'd like to share? - Caller X Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:30:51 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/1126-womens-exposition-woo-fully-sad.html#comment-19478 I actually think it's more that events who have themes which are stupid, or who pander to people who are unreflected and/or stupid, will tend to attract those who prey on stupidity and ignorance. "women's exposition" is a prime example. "women" consists of half the population, and if you include the fact that many women are mothers, and thus items of interest to those with kids are also thus indirectly interesting to women, you end up with an event that logically should include two thirds of what humanity does. And even THAT assumes that there's a large collection of stuff that humans do, but which does NOT interest women. The very premise is thus either sexist, OR it's nonexistant. (i.e. "womens exposition" is equivalent to "humans exposition") Smart women, would tend not to go there. I sure as hell would not go to a "men's exposition" - those actually do exist, though they're typically named somewhat differently. They're -also- full of woo, and additionally, they push a extremely limiting, clicheed stereotype of what it means to be male. Apparently, to be male, you must be interested in watching sports on TV, while drinking beer. Motorsport and weight-lifting, scantily-clad females and fishing. Also, you must spend ridicolous amounts on technological-sounding magic-gadgets that does unphysical things. Gold-plated HDMI-cables at $500/meter that somehow, magically, give "open, clear sound". (despite the fact that any random functioning cable will give bit-by-bit perfect transmission) - agrajag Mon, 25 Oct 2010 23:01:31 +0100