Comments for In Defense of Karma at http://67.228.115.46/site , comment 1 to 44 out of 20 comments http://67.228.115.46/site Sun, 26 May 2013 04:04:48 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-21697 As per infallible laws of karma ... we reaped fruits of karma performed! Nothing in cosmic system happened of its own! If we suffered in present life... all owes its existence to bad karma performed by us in past or previous lives! - Vijay Kumar Jain Fri, 25 Mar 2011 03:01:31 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8776 [quote]...your first graf is a westernized new-age approach to the concept of karma, and is not what it's meant to be in its simplest forms...The first sentence of the third graf is an accurate summation of what karma is understood to be. [/quote]As I understand it, "graf" is a German title of nobility, equivalent to "count". If you mean "paragraph", why can't you just write it out? Too lazy? If you want an abbreviation, why not "'graph" (note the apostrophe, a punctuation convention to indicate missing letters)? To put this into context of the topic here, sloppy language begets sloppy language. Y R U promoting abrv8ing at the expense of clarity? It only encourages others to do so. (Or maybe you are really "Count Warreno" and want to feed delusions of grandeur.) - Eric Arthur Blair Wed, 29 Jul 2009 05:00:08 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8732 To make the world a better place, choose to do good things! - Habenero Tue, 28 Jul 2009 13:29:58 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8718 I used to be a Buddhist, and believed in the whole karma system. Yeah, we can ACT as if it were real, but that's just setting up a false construct where one isn't needed. Why not just rely on the Golden Rule? Do unto others as you would have them to unto you? Makes complete sense, and you don't need to justify it with some supernatural mechanism. And while karma provides a great incentive to be kind and good, it also lays blame on the victims. Something bad happens to you? Ah screw it, you deserved it. That's not a healthy way of thinking. - LeeTheAgent Tue, 28 Jul 2009 08:10:10 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8601 (I'm a german native speaker, so i might not get everything right.) There is another aspect to this. Generally you expect people to act as you do. Ergo if you lie a lot, you expect them to lie to you, too. If you add to that the concept of the "self-fulfilling prophecy"([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-fulfilling_prophecy[/url]), you've pretty much got karma. You expect them to lie - you act, as if they do - they will lie to you. With this approach, it is not how much good you do, it's more what you expect. And what you expect in turn is influenced by how you act yourself. So you can do all the good you want, if you expect the world to be selfish nonetheless, it will be. So I have to agree with Jeff, there is something to the concept, although not the reasoning, of karma. - Harlekin Mon, 27 Jul 2009 02:23:25 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8532 ever goes unpunished. (joke) The only thing mystical about karma is the name. karma is a scientifically provable theory under several laws of physics. semantics, however, is the culprit that causes all the discord. A forum does not provide enough space for an in depth dialog on the matter, but if you look at he physical laws of vibration, and the missing black keys on a piano between naturally occurring half-steps, do some research, contemplation, and connect-the-dots, you'll see. If not and are really interested, buzz me on facebook. Im not that hard to find. - yo saxman Sat, 25 Jul 2009 17:41:33 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8521 I once helped an old lady across the street and she didn't thank me, she said she didn't want to cross. So I hit her and snatched her purse. From then on I've been living according to 'inverse karma', that is the philosophy that says that for every evil you do, something good happens to you... It seems to work better than the original one. ;D - julianrod Sat, 25 Jul 2009 05:04:52 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8515 @Griz: Someone else covered it to a degree, but ethics essentially boil down to "don't do anything you wouldn't want done to you," and morality boils down to "acting ethically without any expectation of receiving the same, or better, treatment in kind." No one has to be some sort of Great Adjudicator. The majority of us don't kill others because we'd rather others not kill us. We don't steal because we'd rather not be stolen from. We (I should hope) generally try to look after those around us because we'd like to hope that they'd do the same for us if the situations were reversed. That's simply ethical behavior. If one assumes that we don't kill because we'd rather not be killed, as opposed to not killing out of some fear that we *will* be killed if we do, that's also moral behavior. If, on the other hand, we only stayed our hands out of the fear of punishment, we'd be acting Amorally. (And, of course, if you decide to act despite knowing full well the consequences of your actions, you'd be acting Immorally.) Amoral behavior leads to more laws against this and that, while Immoral behavior leads to fascism, torture, and generally most of the "evils" in the world. - RvLeshrac Fri, 24 Jul 2009 23:52:04 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8509 That's right Jeff Wagg - Randi's dog. Karma will catch up with you for abusing me after I merely presented a paranormal claim. Now on with the proof! It's all verifiable in Google groups. > >> proof of paranormal - by name by nature examples > > What examples? Fastest man on Earth - Bolt Richest Billionaire - Bill Smartest - hawKING Lady Di died Nic Cage in prison movies Ronal Raygun starts the Star Wars program Armstrong plants the flag on the moon michaelANGELO paints angels In 02 02 2002 I posted "proof of God", claiming usenet replies to me matched their alias. Then on 02 02 2003 I got 3 replies to me that clearly matched the alias. One was Rich Shewmaker telling me to go see James Randi. One was See You In Hell who said It all depends. One was Rust who described attacking the knife hand. 3 million to one posts to me in one day, on the anniversary of my paranormal claim. It's a perfectly valid proof, but 1) are you smart enough to understand it and more pertinent 2) is Randi humble enough to hand over the million $ to biblical Adam. Herc - Herc Fri, 24 Jul 2009 19:24:00 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8503 I'm not sure if it can be rationally justified but I tend to prefer the doctrine, "Virtue is its own reward." Most people I've met who talk about karma often seem frustrated that their good deeds aren't paying off while others who are lazy and unscrupulous are living the good life. With tipping as an example again, I worked with a woman who kept careful track of who tipped and who didn't and did frequent calculations of how her tips were comparing to sales etc. I just tried to smile and be nice to everybody and not pay so much attention to how much they tipped. At the end of the day, we made about the same amount but I would go home much happier than she because I was not wasting my time worrying about things I couldn't control. - Zoroaster Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:05:26 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8502 Karma, at least as it was originally used as an English word, comes from a point of view very close to what Jeff has said; it is simple action and reaction. Religions have used this concept to enforce behavior, as if there were some sort of outside intelligence directing karma. Even among normally logical people, there is a conflation of "cause" and "deserve". Such as a guy who points a toy gun at a cop, and the cop shoots him, people cry, "He didn't deserve to die because he had a toy gun!" But the fact that he didn't deserve to die does not change his own hand in his own death, that his actions were the major cause of his death. A more esoteric view of karma is that it is the means by which we learn; the idea (in this version of karma) of actions in a past lifetime coming in the present lifetime are cause and effect, and by no means always in line with the human ideas of justice. In a Buddhist sense, the goal is not to have "good" or "bad" karma; they say that you can bind yourself with chains of iron or chains of gold, but they are still chains. The idea is to try to act as impersonally as possible, for the good of all, remembering that you are part of that "all". Not a bad way to live. - bart Fri, 24 Jul 2009 12:41:04 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8500 My sister and I believe devoutly in Shopping Cart Karma. We always tuck our carts into the cart corral, in hopes of inspiring other people to do it too--thus reducing the quantity of rogue carts roaming the parking lot hoping to bash into innocent vehicles. - Blue Sock Monkey Fri, 24 Jul 2009 04:48:29 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8493 If you don't believe in Karma, it could come back to bite you on the ass! - bigdoggy Thu, 23 Jul 2009 23:50:34 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8490 I agree with pxatkins "Good grief ... what JW is calling 'karma' is not karma, it's just setting a good example. " I used to use the word karma in the sense that do something good and hopefully it will be noticed and reiciprocated (or vice versa, that bad deeds may also be reciprocated) - until I realised some people at work believed in reincarnation and thought their lot was due to "bad karma" in their past life - i kid you not - people who honestly believe in "karma" think people deserve what they get because of some cosmic payback (tell that to the people with AIDS in Africa or the people who suffered in the holocaust) - so now i won't cheerfully use the word like I once did. - Retromancy Thu, 23 Jul 2009 20:25:09 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8489 I helped an old lady across the street the other day, but, I'll be damned if could get her purse away from her. Tough old bird, she was! - bigjohn756 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 12:27:18 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8488 Well, Jeff, you sure got them up out of their easy chairs and at their keyboards with this one! ;D 28 comments and counting, as of 4 pm (GMT -6) here in Minnesota. Thought provoking every one, and more to come, I'll wager. To avoid being taken to task and misquoted as a result, I will simply say that I agree with everyone, and let it go at that. :) - daveg703 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 11:32:15 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8486 I think several of the responses are being over-sensitive about the use of language because it has religious roots. I don't know if the concept that Jeff is discussing should be a redefinition of karma, but there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it either. - Star Man Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:45:13 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8485 Good grief ... what JW is calling 'karma' is not karma, it's just setting a good example. - pxatkins Thu, 23 Jul 2009 09:14:27 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8484 Thomas Jefferson once removed all of the mystical references from the Jesus section of the New Testament. What he ended up with was a pretty good set of rules to live by. I believe he was attempting to do what Mr. Wagg is suggesting here. Follow the rule without being a follower. I sort of agree. There have been too many articles written by religious frui...people who claim a superiority based on a moral code [i]because[/i] they believe in a god. My argument in response has always been as an atheist I know the difference between right and wrong, I don't need a god to force me to be nice. (of course it doesn't hurt to remind them that god has sanctioned far more murder then any atheist - neither Hitler nor Stalin were atheists btw). I'm generally not in favor of adding more religious terminology -benign or not- to my vocabulary. However, 'goodbye' is religion free these days and maybe 'karma' can be in the future. But god-bless-you for a sneeze, I think not. There are no demons in my nose thank you. If demons reside in me anywhere they should be happier, I think, in my ass. And though it would be more appropriate, no one ever says god-bless-you when I fart. We can debate the subjective nature of 'good' all day long. I believe the general population doesn't give much philosophical thought to it yet there seems to be a relative notion of what good conduct is all about. Any chance we can advance good conduct without god for the sake of plain old good conduct than I am for it. - Zen66 Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:52:56 +0100 http://67.228.115.46/site/index.php/swift-blog/646-in-defense-of-karma.html#comment-8483 [quote]My personal opinion is that the bible had one thing right: the highest good is indeed the golden rule, to do to others as you'd be done to. You have no right to expect treatment from folks that you're not willing to give them.[/quote] Yeah, like murdering tens, if not hundreds of thousands of people so you can take up residence in the "promised land". What goes around only sometimes comes around. - Steel Rat Thu, 23 Jul 2009 08:40:28 +0100