Comments for Ask The Skeptics: My Son's a Witch at http://www.randi.org/site , comment 1 to 30 out of 20 comments http://www.randi.org/site Tue, 18 Jun 2013 16:25:59 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-13149 Yes, I agree that not everybody in the world might need certain vaccinations, but I need all that I can possibly get. Both my half-sister and I have severe auto-immune issues. Our specialist thinks that perhaps we share a mutated gene. Even normal flu makes us very sick (my sister has been hospitalized for it in the past), so when the Swine Flu vaccine became available, we jumped on it. We had our entire families vaccinated. I myself have been in a battle for about a year now with my insurance company to be given the Shingles vaccine. The protocol for it is that it is only given to individuals above the age of 55. I am 36 but have had it four times within the past five years, due to my auto-immune condition. I could buy this expensive vaccine on my own, but finding a Doc willing to give me the injection is a whole other matter. - Pinkymcfatfat Thu, 03 Dec 2009 07:41:46 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-13002 It's hard to believe in both. And there's enough woo-like stuff in physics to accommodate even the flakiest new-ager. As always, truth is stranger than fiction. - judee Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:31:17 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12951 [quote]I do the best I can to keep my classroom furniture wiped down with Clorox wipes, and I am obsessive about washing my hands (to the point that they're chapped, cracked, and bleeding), but my students are notorious for bringing all sorts of germs with them to school, and, sick days or no, I just can't afford the time off from work to nurse even a mild case of the flu (and it probably wouldn't stay mild; I am familiar with the premise that stress makes the body susceptible to disease, and my stress levels tend to run high because I'm a perfectionist).[/quote] You're not doing your students or yourself any favors by showing up with open wounds. Did you turn off the stove before you left the kitchen today? Lock the door? Are you sure? How many times did you check? More than once? - Caller X Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:27:24 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12927 I just got my H1N1 vaccine last Friday, and I plan to get a seasonal flu shot as soon as my county's health department gets some more. I'm 29 years old and in reasonably good health, and so maybe I'm being a bit paranoid, but I submit for the JREF readers the fact that I am a high school teacher. I see at least 70 students per day (we're a small rural school), and on Tuesdays and Thursdays I moonlight teaching astronomy at the local elementary school's after-school program. I do the best I can to keep my classroom furniture wiped down with Clorox wipes, and I am obsessive about washing my hands (to the point that they're chapped, cracked, and bleeding), but my students are notorious for bringing all sorts of germs with them to school, and, sick days or no, I just can't afford the time off from work to nurse even a mild case of the flu (and it probably wouldn't stay mild; I am familiar with the premise that stress makes the body susceptible to disease, and my stress levels tend to run high because I'm a perfectionist). So I will continue to get a yearly flu shot (courtesy of the local health department - I can't afford to pay for it, and my insurance won't help), and I encourage all of my colleagues in education to get a flu shot as well, because none of us can really afford to be sick, and we see students sneezing and coughing on each other and us on a daily basis (which is really gross). My point is that some of us (I imagine nurses and other health professionals) should vaccinate based on our jobs, not just our age and relative health. P.S. If anyone has research proving me wrong, I'm always happy to consider new data. - CelticGoddess1326 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:22:30 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12925 Wicca, like the Renaissance Festival and the SCA, is the short bus to polyamory, a.k.a. sex with women of larger carriage. - Caller X Mon, 23 Nov 2009 12:11:14 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12884 Well I'd still take that over certain, painful death. And I doubt most antivax people do that much research too be honest. - PlasticRectangle Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:25:09 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12863 PlasticRectangle, Unfortunately, bringing up rabies isn't a guaranteed winner if you're dealing with an anti-vac person who's well-versed. There was a brouhaha in veterinary medicine circles several years ago where it was found that the rabies vaccine was connected to certain forms of sarcoma at or near the site of injection. - RoadRiverRail Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:18:49 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12857 I'm rather surprised that Otto's response was voted down, and it reinforces my unease with the hiding of "lowly rated" contributions. In general, he's probably quite right, although I'm not quite sure what was meant by the herd immunity comment. If you look at the Cochrane Collaboration ( one of the best sources of informed digests of evidence-based medicine ), you'll see a number of interesting things about flu and flu vaccination. Firstly, most people who have the flu, actually haven't :-) They often have colds, or non-specific flu-like illness which the flu vaccine does not prevent. Secondly, even those having the vaccine show a huge variability in the degree to which they develop useful levels of immunity. And thirdly, because of it's ubiquitous and changeable nature, you have to vaccinate huge numbers of individuals, at a relatively high frequency, to develop anything approaching herd immunity, which will be ephemeral at best. The fact that flu is carried by animal vectors also makes the existence of herd immunity somewhat moot in any case. Don't misinterpret me here, I regard vaccination of one of the greatest triumphs of modern science, it has produced more benefit than any other advance I can think of. As a health care worker, I have an annual flu shot because of the people I deal with. As to Betty's son, I would, with appropriate apologies to Shakespeare, only say that I too can speak to spirit guides and fairies, and so can any (wo)man. But do they answer? - kdv Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:18:15 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12852 The example of the rabies virus should be enough to talk sense into most people, I hope. The complete inability of alternative medicine to even [i]try[/i] curing it, combined with virtually 100 % death rate if nothing is done, and vaccines promptly administered after exposure being the only plausible treatment, should, (ideally) bring a return of common sense. Any thoughts on this argument's effectiveness? - PlasticRectangle Fri, 20 Nov 2009 18:25:55 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12842 First off, on the vaccine issue. Keep your cool and try not to put them into a defensive position. Try to suss out their reasons for avoiding it, and mention information that counters their reason. In preparation, look for sites that have a user-friendly approach to their writing, based on facts and with citations to source material for the adventurous. You can then point your friends to those sites. If they're wary of government agencies, like CDC and FDA, some places to start might be Science-Based Medicine or antiantivax.flurf.net. If you think they can handle some snarkiness, Respectful Insolence might also work. My own story is that I was raised Lutheran and drifted into some manner of neo-pagan Wicca-ish thing in high school. I believed in the whole spirit-guide and animal totem mumbo-jumbo that I read in a book. I would take time to lie down, eyes closed and, as the book I read instructed, visualize passing through a dolmen into the Otherworld and wait for my animal totem to show up. And show up it did...or so I thought. I eventually came to realize that it was all my own imagination, in part because the advice I got from my "guide" always lined up with what I wanted. It never advised against a foolhardy, though desired, path. Belief in spells was only lukewarm. I kinda thought it might be possible, but also felt it was a little silly. Eventually, I grew out of it, in part by reading things like [i]Swift[/i]and [i]Flim-Flam[/i] and realizing that not only can a lot of the claims be tested, but that when they have been tested, they've failed. - Todd W. Fri, 20 Nov 2009 05:30:50 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12826 My family was a combo Irish superstition (mother) with a strong streak of logic and science based thinking (father and mother to a point). We went to the library regularly and there were no limitations on what we could read. At about the same age I read a lot of occult books and ate it up and then simply stopped. I was saturated and moved on to the next thing - which was science fiction and I read everything I could get my hands on and that was enough. Next! Being able to explore without judgment, and knowing you have a base of a sensible family behind you usually does not make for a future wacko nut job. No information is bad if you know how to think. As to people who declare that flu shots are evil; a simple "afraid of needles, huh?" might stop the conversation, but not likely. I wanted the shots and haven't been able to find them anywhere locally. I am hoping I have some immunity already, as I read that my age group may well have been exposed to an H1N1 flu during our childhoods. Hope so. - ClareZ Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:55:02 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12823 I like the idea of a skeptics version of "Dear Abby". I'm as happy as a peacock in a rainbow. - epok205 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:45:39 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12814 A 13-yr-old into Wicca is way ahead of his peers in some ways. He's already gotten past mainstream religious influences and has done some major critical thinking for himself. It's arguably a part of his mental development to explore such interests. Being that wise, he'll grow out of it. I disagree with threatening him with Judeo-Catholic paranoia via-a-vis astral projection; it's the very thing he's escaping. Maybe more Wicca books would be good; the discovery that authors don't agree or even interact offers proof of invention. And Wiccans aren't the type to bomb abortion clinics, gay bash, snub others, push political agendas, abhor basic scientific reality, reject America's founding principles, etc. Flu shots aren't overrated (probably the opposite) but neither are they mandatory. It depends on your lifestyle, location, health, age, etc. They're nice too have for most people (and though I recommend them I will not be getting one myself this year - but not for reasons of paranoia or distrust). Several of your friends would, nonetheless, get one if it was right in front of them, no? With the pharma lobby being so unruly, I can understand why people make the jump into thinking big pharma does not have their best interests in mind. I don't agree with the logic, but I understand it. At least they're doing some thinking and the idea of any such "moral obligation" is exactly what they're avoiding and for good reason (I would think most skeptics abhor the thought of moral imperatives and the logic behind such body controls). Odds are slim they will forgo the shot and then get seriously ill so you're arguing about overall situations and logic, and not trying to help them out "personally". In that case, stats and info are your ammo. Sounds like they're either subject to illogical connections between politics/money/industry OR just misinformation. Start by figuring out which but then offer no reply to this; let this sink in first. - Diverted Chrome Thu, 19 Nov 2009 12:06:42 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12813 otto, I think you may have some misunderstanding about the purpose of vaccines and their relevance to infection. [quote]Herd-immunity is indeed real, but it doesn't offer any benefit to the individual[/quote] This is a poor assessment for two reasons. 1. The obvious moral aspect, you'd only get a vaccine if you were certain it would help you and you alone? That's preposterous and abhorrent. You'd willingly turn down a vaccine, fully aware that you may expose more vulnerable people if you become infected? Sure if you become infected you can isolate yourself, but there's a span of time between infection and effective isolation. And then there's the quality of your isolation. What if you come down with it the day before you run out of milk? You're going to have to get milk one way or another and risk spreading your infection. 2. Even if (and this is a definite if) the strain is not virulent enough to cause you serious harm, mutation by spreading through the herd could lead to a much more virulent, dangerous strain. Sure it may be "harmless flu" now, but if the wrong person gets it, it can mutate into something much worse. The fewer people that get infected, the less the risk for *everybody*. [quote]The immune system needs training.[/quote] Yes it does. And that's [b]exactly[/b] what vaccines do, they train the immune system. The difference is that instead of getting a full-blown infection, you get a controlled, safely modified exposure that causes a little inflammation and related symptoms (symptoms related to inflammation, it will not be like getting the flu itself). Afterwards, your immune system is in a condition as though you got the full infection and recovered. It trains your immune system without the risk. This is [i]completely[/i] different to, as you put it, slathering your body with disinfectant or running for the antibiotics. - Snixtor Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:07:44 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12812 According to Robin Skelton's [i]Practice of Witchcraft[/i]the he only rule is "Do as you will an [meaning so long as] ye harm no one." Not available at the JREF :) - pxatkins Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:45:38 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12811 Skeptic, Your nitpicking is not correct. Within the context of Wicca, "witch" is the correct term for both male and female practitioners. In fact, Wiccans accept an etymology of "warlock" which makes it a pejorative term. - RoadRiverRail Thu, 19 Nov 2009 10:00:39 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12810 I was raised by religious, god-fearing parents (who I wouldn't trade for the world) and still turned out to be a critical thinker, skeptic, and atheist. The greatest gift they gave me was the ability and desire to think for myself. I was never drawn to Wicca, or any 'woo' per se, because whenever I encountered it I assessed it on it's merits, and discard it. If you encourage rational thought and independence he'll be protected against not only 'woo', but scams and frauds of all sorts. I would suggest not thinking in terms of what you can do to help him, but how you can help him to help himself. Good luck. - Insert clever name here Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:59:28 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12809 ...witches are female. Her son is a warlock... (Yes, I'm nitpicking.) - Skeptic Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:43:02 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12806 Teenagers go through phases. Wicca is better than any other than I can think of, including Black Metal, gangs, Thelema, fundie christian religions, hard drugs, alcoholism, pregnancy, rave parties, or just about anything else I remember my kids being exposed to. It's certainly no worse than any other "religion"...in fact the tenets are few but mostly along the lines of the golden rule: be nice to others, what goes around comes around. What happens a lot of times is kids get into fantasy fiction. Today, online games like Lord of the Rings Online and World of Warcraft can spark interest. What they're usually trying to do is find a way in the real world to live in their fantasy world where they are powerful and competent and don't have to worry about peer acceptance issues. - Griz Thu, 19 Nov 2009 08:06:27 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/779-ask-the-skeptics-my-sons-a-witch.html#comment-12805 "Yeah, you're right. It totally makes sense. The government and the drug companies are trying to kill off taxpayers and their children because they hate money. It's so obvious! I wonder why I didn't think of it earlier!" ...but, seriously, I'm with Randi on the little wiccan. I went through the same thing myself in high school. Critical thinking tends to win out in the end, especially with a supportive parent. - the bible is useless Thu, 19 Nov 2009 06:48:45 +0100