Comments for The EU Officially Embraces Quackery at http://www.randi.org/site , comment 1 to 27 out of 20 comments http://www.randi.org/site Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:26:01 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3077 "Card be pick! Card any!" "Huh? Wuddee say?" (lol, j/k) - Cuddy Joe Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:11:54 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3073 Yes, The Powers by Politics... Even the legal health systems and their bases their philosophies are simply against the human health itself worldwide!, not even that kind of trickery... The two opposite philosophy in that levels are the biggest shame of that planet.. The health in not for sell-never...! It`s never aloud to be a (good or bad) business...! ___________ ALEX, S.H. - alexthemagician Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:00:15 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3070 Dear Gabor... I`am very very happy for You indeed... I will discuss with Mr.Randi also about it... I`am seeing, that stg. good starting in Hungary too... We will contact very soon...,:) Many Thanks..., ___________________ ALEX, S.H. - alexthemagician Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:33:25 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3068 Alexthemagician, please contact me, I am the executive president of the Hungarian Skeptic Society and we very much welcome any interested magicians. gabor@hrasko.com - Gabor Hrasko Wed, 11 Feb 2009 06:14:37 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3067 [b]I`am really really skeptic![/b] about the Hungarian skeptical forums and organizations... Mr.Randi knows well what I`am talking about...:) [b]Just to inform You...:[/b] none of that "skeptical" organizations and their forums did their job...! when Uri Geller`s The Successor "show" was running (against) that country -last year...! For example-Randi knows...-how the magicians exposed Uri Geller in Hungary... -without the any little help of the skeptical lines... Really really funny story indeed...:) I would be happy to read about that story here by Mr.Randi..., because we were often in touch, Randi did help for me a lot in that private fight...:) I informed the public in one forum in Hungary, that I seeing deep problems and big mistakes in the structures and "strategies" of that skeptical organizations -without magicians...??? I suggested to Randi several times to rethink and renew his connections here in that levels, because really really strange things are running in that country, as I saw the skeptical forums, organizations they just used Randi`s name, nothing else..., while we saw an empty talks, dialogs with cheated "stupid" peoples, fans about the magic tricks of that show...:) [b][b]We saw here the big and strange silence of the science and "official skepticism",[/b][/b] while we was fighting against Uri Geller...-and we won...:) ALEX, S.H. - alexthemagician Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:57:06 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3066 "Let he who is without woo cast the first bone." Gospel of Joe 21:13 - Cuddy Joe Wed, 11 Feb 2009 05:46:55 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3047 The next time a Brit derides me for being a citizen of a country that's "so religious," I'll just remind him/her about this EU decision. Europeans have a habit of downward social comparison in their dealings with Americans, but they almost always forget just how much woo-woo exists in their own countries. If it didn't, Randi wouldn't have so many Frequent Flier miles built up! LOL - SheldonHelms Tue, 10 Feb 2009 17:34:04 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3035 "but then I addressed a meeting in Oslo before Norway joined up" Joined up for what? EU membership? Norway is not a member of the EU. The people of Norway has voted against EU membership in two referendums (1972 and 1994). E.M. - eirik Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:31:53 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-3000 bosshog, Well, I'm going to live in hope that governments will one day act against the charlatans who defraud its citizens of their hard earned cash. You want to market a pharmaceutical, you first prove it works. You want to market a homeopathic remedy, you first prove it works. You sell obvious frauds like bomb detection devices, you get thrown in prison. You sell quack cancer cures and you get tried for murder. There is just far too much advantage to the hoaxer and scammmer in our society and little or no protection for their hapless victims. Bj - BillyJoe Mon, 09 Feb 2009 23:05:53 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2989 [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7875192.stm[/url] Alternative therapies don't get much help from the arthritis research campain - jeffblack Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:01:36 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2975 Yarro nailed it, early on. Since these sham therapies and 'medicines' require no research or development they are profitable right out of the gate. CAM has a huge lobby. Politicians love lobbyists. It's all about the money. Shovel enough money at a politician and he/she'll vote for [i]anything[/i]. Homeopathy kills few and only indirectly, by delaying or pre-empting real medical intervention on the statistically far fewer truly serious diseases, while it's typically used for lesser or minor afflictions. It's crap and most politicians know it, but it's low risk for them and there's sooooo much easy money in it for them. In the US, the governmental sCAM movement was [i]started[/i] by a US Senator. Secondarily, it's about the squeaky wheel. There's a huge imbalance in the number of political constituents asking for it over the number complaining about it, also making it a no-brainer for politicians. - Cuddy Joe Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:38:30 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2973 James Randi mentioned a few years ago that when he went to China, he noticed government-sponsored billboards for smoking. It is as if the government encourages people to smoke. The speculation is that if the government pays for everyone, then it may be fiscally prudent to encourage an early demise rather than pay to support people who live many years past retirement. Maybe that is what happens in socialist countries. Maybe it makes sense to a government that pays for health care that they encourage people to take inexpensive "medicine" that is ineffective, thereby increasing the death rate of those past the age of financial contribution. No longer part of the tax base? Smoke up and take this homeopathy for your lung cancer. This is all speculation on my part, of course, but testable perhaps. - PsyberDave Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:28:19 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2970 This has probably been mentioned already, but I am struck with the plethora of Google ads infesting Randi's page with solicitations to "learn homeopathy", "buy homeopathic remedies", and such. Is there any way to alter this? Surely JREF doesn't want to be a click-point to increase traffic on a quack shill site...? - DrDoLittle Mon, 09 Feb 2009 06:14:47 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2969 BillyJoe: The point of my alarmist cold war rhetoric (I know, I rail sometimes) is concern over the increasingly blythe acceptance of government control over our lives in the name of protecting us from ourselves. Certainly our government shouldn't be PROMOTING claptrap like homeopathy, but the examples I reeled off illustrated the tendency of tyranical powers to label anything it finds threatening as "mental illness" and throttle it. The beauty of the American ideal of freedom is that people can choose their own path and speak their own minds freely without the government deciding if it is acceptable to itself. This ideal has badly eroded in the last hundred years or so. I think homeopathy should not be interfered with by the government. I also believe that drugs should be legal, gays should be able to marry and inept businesses should be allowed to fail in favor of those that are competently run. As for stupidity, I didn't say it was a choice, I said it was a right. Homosexuality is not a choice either, and people were once put into insane asylums for practicing it in order to "protect them from their perversions". I believe Christianity is stupid, but I don't believe that we should outlaw it to protect ITS followers from being bilked by TV evangelists. Who am I to decide for you how you may live your life? - bosshog Mon, 09 Feb 2009 02:30:49 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2966 bosshog, I'm not sure that I understand your point about the Soviet Union, The Inquisition, and Chinese Communism. I wasn't talking about taking action against stupid people, I was talking about protecting these indivduals against the people who exploit them. And people who disply stupidity by being taken in by scams, [i]are[/i] mentally deficient. Not globally mentally deficient, of course, but deficient in critical faculties regarding the detection of scams. And deficient in real life experiences of scams. And often through no fault of their own. And people don't choose to be stupid. Stupidity in detecting scams is almost a default position. You actually have to train yourself to detect them. In the mean time, I think governments should protect them against their exploiters. BJ - BillyJoe Sun, 08 Feb 2009 22:50:03 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2963 Randi had not cited from my mail that registering a remedy as a drug means that it has to go through clinical trials to prove efficacy and safety. Simplified registration means that homeopathic remedies does not have to go through this process. Registering them in this way is not much more difficult than registering a dietary supplement, BUT they receive the status of a real drug. It is true that - at the moment - it is not allowed to use medical indication on the box - but who reads the box? Medical indications are used everywhere in all documents of homeopathy and patients hear it from the homeopaths. Well, they go to the homeopath a they have som bad medical conditions. Why to prescribe something that does not have a medical indication? On the other hand in our circumstances - when real doctors are practicing homeopathy - it is the dilution of science, the scientific method. When doctors organize conferences where other doctors get credit points if participate about the memory of water and other unscientific stuff about homeopathy, then real science is in danger. Gabor - Gabor Hrasko Sun, 08 Feb 2009 20:21:16 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2959 I agree with BillyJoe - stupidity is a defect, not a right. We can't encourage stupid behavior or society will degenerate. Supporting quackery because some people want it is not right - that's just being a stupid toady, not being a responsible leader. In principle people elect leaders to look after the public good and to do things which are beneficial to society; giving ignorance free reign is not something encouraged by political philosophy. Support for quackery has a detrimental effect on everyone - for example: * more people may believe quackery is legitimate - after all, it is protected by legislation * health insurance companies will pay for quackery and everyone who does not support quackery will suffer through increased insurance costs In the USA at least, individual freedom ends when society is threatened. Quackery is a very serious threat to society; don't fall for any arguments that it does no harm. - MadScientist Sun, 08 Feb 2009 11:55:52 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2957 Weren't we all recently fretting and wringing our hands over Norway's considering enforcement of its blasphemy laws on the grounds that "the fool hath said in his heart 'there is no God'" and that this vulnerable fool needed to be protected from himself? We won't even go into the Scopes Trial, intended to protect the children of Tennessee from the stupidity of evolution... - bosshog Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:55:52 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2956 BillyJoe: I strongly disagree. The vast majority of homeopathy patrons are not mentally deficient morons any more than the vast majority of Fundamentalist Christians or New Age smoke eaters or atheists. If a person is truly mentally deficient then the state can take care of that individual on an individual basis; the rest of us must be free to make our own decisions regardless of what you or I think of them. The Soviet Union routinely locked people away for the "mental aberration" of not accepting the party line. The Inquisition destroyed people for the evil lunacy of practising witchcraft. The Chinese Communists to this day imprison people for "insane" religious practices and political activities not approved by the state. I'll take freedom, as messy as it is. And yes: stupidity IS a freedom. - bosshog Sun, 08 Feb 2009 10:06:00 +0100 http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/428-the-eu-officially-embraces-quackery.html#comment-2955 [quote]freedom includes the freedom to be stupid. A free person takes on the responsibility to inform himself and beware of liars and quacks.[/quote] Stupidity is not a freedom. It is a deficiency. If people do not have the experience or mental ability, how can you demand that they be responsible for themselves. Part of the role of goverments is to protect the vulnerable in our society. - BillyJoe Sun, 08 Feb 2009 09:41:03 +0100