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We don't like science so the media don't talk about science which makes us not like science which makes the media not report on science which – PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Brandon K. Thorp & Penn Bullock   
Thursday, 07 October 2010 11:43

Last week, we published a story at the Miami New Times linking Florida governor Charlie Crist to a father-son team of chemical castrators named Dr. Mark and David Geier. The Geiers are “anti-vax” autism researchers who believe rigorous chelation therapy, augmented with the castration drug Lupron, is an effective treatment for (some) autistic children. (That's the digest version, anyway. You may find some good background on the Geiers here, courtesy of Respectful Insolence, or you may view our own story here.) From all appearances, the governor's office is attempting to bend a reluctant Florida Department of Health to the Geiers' will, as the researchers seek access to the state's database of millions of confidential vaccination records. The governor's intercession comes at the request of one Dr. Gary Kompothecras; chiropractor, anti-vaxer, Geiers supporter, and – crucially – major Crist fundraiser, with a seat on the Governor's Autism Task Force.

This is reprehensible, but it's not the subject of this screed. In this screed, we'd like to share what we left out of the story: Our queasy suspicion that none of the cynical shennanigans described therein would have taken place if the governor believed his constituents understood science, or had any faith in his state's media to report factually on a science story.

 

If we're right, it must be said: the governor has not made an entirely unreasonable assumption. We two are skeptics, journalists, and Floridians, yet prior to researching this story we had no idea that Charlie Crist had tapped Dr. Gary Kompothecras to be on his Autism Task Force. (If it wasn't for Respectful Insolence and a neuro-diversity activist of our acquaintance, we'd never have heard of Lupron, either.) And if we didn't know, what chance had the average Floridian of knowing – the one who gave up her subscription to The Miami Herald three years ago and now gets her news from Drudge and HuffPo? None at all.

Our story received a loud and enthusiastic reception from the skeptical and neuro-diversity communities, but constituted barely a blip on the radar of the mainstream media. We hope it's not mere egoism that makes us believe the reception rather proves the point about the wretched relationship between science and the press. There is, after all, a very important election coming up in the States, and the Crist-Rubio-Meek race has been one of the country's most-watched. Imagine any other situation in which a campaigning pol's name became attached to the word “castration” and the event didn't cause pools of saliva to accumulate beneath the chins of the nation's talking heads. There was no drooling this time, because in order to make political grist out of the Lupron story, the talking heads would have had to dismiss the claims of the anti-vaxers and embrace the findings of “mainstream science” as unequivocally true. In other words, they would have had to take a stand on a scientific issue. And that just isn't done.

Why not? There are, after all, some things that newspapers and cable news programs will treat as unequivocally true. For example: Though they cannot know for sure, news outlets from Hannity & Colmes to The New Yorker have taken it on faith that God does not “hate fags,” no matter how voluminously the Westboro Baptist Church may preach to the contrary. Furthermore, every news outlet is happy to report that the 9/11 Truthers are nuts; that Richard Nixon was uncommonly dishonest; that Stalin was bad and Hitler was worse; and that Lady Gaga is not a world-conquering Manchurian Candidate singing in the service of the subterranean reptilian Illuminati. There are those who disagree with such sentiments, yet the media feel no need to offer “balance” (how we loathe the word) by giving these contrarians a voice.

The media is much more tentative on vaccines/autism in particular, and on alt-med or science in general. Why?

Our own (hopelessly circumscribed) experience leads us to finger four particular culprits for the media's science-indifference.

1. If it bleeds, it leads. Yes, it does, and the front page's natural preference for the loud and the splashy does lead to an over-reporting of woo-stories and an under-reporting of skeptical stories. “Angel Rescues Trapped Miners” is news, whereas “Angel Fails To Rescue Trapped Miners” is just kind of depressing. Still, though – science is full of loud and splashy stories. “Castration” is a loud and splashy word! Moreover, science deals with such tantalizing subjects as the end of the universe, sexuality, cancer, cybernetics, AI, life extension, weaponry, and love. If reporters were as obsessed with drama, excitement, screamy-headline-type stories as we suppose, science journalism would be a much bigger deal than it is. But journalists, we suspect, have a difficult time contextualizing scientific data, because their brains have been subtly poisoned by a very bad idea.  

2. Objectivity is a false god. Yes, it is. Modern journalism is an American invention of very recent vintage, and newspaper writing prior to the American Civil War was floridly and nakedly partisan. The enormity of the war led to an increasingly somber and clinical tone among news writers, even as advances in telegraph technology led to a surplus of news and a resultant shortage of paper. By the early 1900s, the flat, info-packed style of American newswriting existed in more-or-less its present form, though “objectivity” wasn't yet its stated goal. That came in the following decades, as the result of arguments within academia and internecine conflicts within individual dailies. Those in favor of pure objectivity won the day (or at least a plurality of advertisers), and now most newsfolk think “objectivity” was something handed down on Sinai. It wasn't. But even if it was, it wouldn't be any more attainable. What gets printed or aired in a news story has everything to do with which sources get back to a reporter before deadline, who looks best on camera, and what angle might make a story juiciest and thereby more appealing to an editor. (This last applies mostly to television media, though we print people are not entirely juice-resistant.) That said, objectivity is a fine goal – as long as a reporter actually thinks about it. But we tend not to. Consider the slogan “Fair & Balanced.” It's popular, but meaningless. “Fairness” is telling the truth; “balance” is undermining every truth with an equal and opposite untruth. Reporters are distressingly committed to the latter, unless the untruth in question is so obviously ridiculous as to be beneath mention. This is the case with the ideology of the Westboro Baptist Church and the suggestion that Lady Gaga is a Freemasonic cyborg. You'd think the notion of a link between, say, vaccines and autism would be in this category as well, but it's not. And that's because: 

3. Journalists don't know much about science. True. The scientists have graphs. The anti-vaxers have graphs. The scientists sound a little saner, but how can a poor, bedeadlined journalist be sure? He can't. And so he plays it safe, offering up nice, balanced stories like this one, which secretes several good points amid several bad ones, trusting in the readers' scientific expertise to sift the one from the other. Similarly written pieces are likely to be published for a while, because:

4. Journalists don't think science is cool. True. Remember the flap about the Virginia Heffernan article in the New York Times Magazine? In that article, Heffernan launched a nasty attack on the good folk of ScienceBlogs.com while fruitlessly namechecking a few post-structuralists from the last century, as though Darwinism was a mere social construct but Derrida was channeling God. (And as though the spiteful polemic was a weapon solely licensed to journos. No pharyngula allowed!) Defending herself in the comments section of a colleague's blog, Virginia excused one of her errors on the grounds that she “has no training” in science, and was so unaware of the existence of climate change “denialism” that she failed to recognize denialist literature when she saw it. She claimed this even though her screed was, in part, a strident argument against strident arguments against climate change denialism. The substance of those arguments aside, we hope you'll agree with this assessment: If Ms. Heffernan had been writing about literature, politics, food, or sports, she wouldn't have felt nearly so comfortable claiming ignorance as a defense. Only when writing about science, apparently, may journalists write before bothering to learn anything about their subject. Take a look at Nancy Gibbs' story from a June issue of Time, in which she editorialized about synthetic biology while acknowledging in the first graf that she needed the phrase “synthetic biology” defined for her before she could write about it. Does that inspire your confidence? (In the same story, Gibbs tentatively suggests that we avoid manufacturing bacteria, as bacteria can mutate in unexpected ways. She never gets around to explaining why this isn't equally true of the bacteria in her own small intestine.)

Carl Sagan often opined that understanding science isn't as difficult as lay people imagine. Consider the complicated data syntheses occurring within the brains of rabid NFL or FIFA-fans – that's hardly less complicated than the attainment of an amateur-level grasp of physics or biology. It's certainly a good deal more complex than a basic understanding of the hows and whys of critical thought. But just because journalists could and should learn science doesn't mean they will. They're busy people.

We submit that the only way to create a science-literate press is by hitting journalists where it hurts: In their egos. At a recent lecture in Gotheburg, in Sweden, James Randi was asked by an audient: “What would be the best suggestion you have to us in Sweden to do something about the media's problem?” His response is applicable well beyond Sweden:

Complain! It works, folks. When you see something absolutely non-sensical on television, write a formal letter with your address and your telephone number expressing how displeased you are. [Write a letter] saying that you're not stupid, and you don't want to be treated like a little child. Say: I'm a citizen of the moden age! Don't drag me back into medieval times.”

Right on. If the skeptical community was to use its considerable erudition to issue an en masse challenge to the media, we think it likely that the media would respond. Journalists don't want to be wrong, and they pride themselves on their skepticism. Indeed, it was a naturally skeptical bent that led most of them to journalism in the first place. Journalists, especially investigative reporters, are individuals almost pathologically suspicious that they are being lied to by the rich, the powerful, and the cynical. They can sniff a dissembler from miles away, and take a visceral pleasure in the exposure of fraud and hypocrisy. Not a gullible bunch. They could and should be our closest allies.

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What stood out
written by Sadhatter, October 08, 2010
Great article, what really stood out to me is the message that science is one of few ( possibly the only) field, in which ignorance is a perfectly valid excuse. And moreover that ignorance is not seen as a reason to keep one's mouth shut.

If i started to write a sports colum, one would find that rather quickly readers would avoid it like the plague. Not knowing about sports, one can not really be a sports journalist.


If i were to write an article on the internal functions of, or the asthetic beauty ( or lack thereof) of cars much the same situation would take place.

But how many scientific articles have you seen that were written, read or otherwise performed by someone with little to no grasp of science. And this would be okay if they were only talking about very basic concepts. But for some reason when discussing science if one says " i don't really know that much about this...." that is translated to " the people who do know about this arn't so smart, so listen to this..." and people believe it.

And that is not even scratching the surface of this type of thinking that we encounter in day to day life. How many times has someone started a conversation with " i don't know too much about the science of it...." and gone onto then explain why vaccines are bad, or how homeopathy is the best thing since sliced bread?

Someone saying they don't know should be an indication to not listen to their opinions on technical topics. If my advice is next to useless when discussing a car, how is someone with equivelent knowledge of science suddenly someone who's opinion should be given weight?
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Good advice
written by garyg, October 08, 2010
Too often the skeptical community seems to contemplate its navel(s), bitching to one another, but not complaining to where it counts: the source (OK, it appears that people like Jenny McCarthy are beyond reach, but not those who let her spout her crap). There are too many skeptics who take a defeatist attitude (and there's some of that reflected in the first part of the article).

Example: there have been recent print and TV ads by chiropractors referring to themselves only as "doctors", offering to treat diabetes and thyroid disease. I complained to the newpaper and TV stations and haven't seen the ads since. In this economy media outlets seem to have lowered the bar on whose ads they will carry (insert your own political joke here :-). Fight back!
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YOUR reasoned evaluation of media is Important!
written by Radwaste, October 08, 2010
When you walk down the street in town, do NOT forget that public opinion is formed by both fictional and non-fictional media. Joe Public thinks that airliners come apart if a pistol is fired inside, that God will save their children from all manner of evil at school - and some really foolish things!
Keep in mind that everyone - you, included - stops learning about an issue or event the moment they see an end to a return on their investment in time and effort, or when what they see conflicts with something they hold dear.

So be entertaining, and remember that there is a percentage of the public which finds learning distinctly unpleasant!
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written by JonK, October 08, 2010
In what seems like another lifetime,I once was a journalist, albeit one with a degree in a scientific discipline (as well as a minor in journalism). Back then, most daily newspapers of any significant size had a science/technology writer, who, if not technically trained from the start was encouraged to take the time to become scientifically literate.

No longer. As newspapers become the product of large bottom-line corporations and further economize, it is rare to see a techically-trained journalist on staff outside of the largest cities. The city I live in has multiple high tech companies, two major universities (one specializing in technology), a world-famous teaching/research hospital--yet the locally Gannett newspaper has no technically-trained reporter to cover stories originating with those organizations.

The reporters who are given science and technology stories to cover do try to do a good job, for the most part, but with ever-shrinking staffs and increased assignment loads and without a scientific background, they are frequently overwhelmed. The results can prove depressing, especially in a town where many of their readers are science literate.

I agree that we can write the editors and complain graciously, but even if they acknowledge the problem they too are under constraints from their corporate overlords. (I know. I have written and received both on and off the record replies.)

The only other partial remedy I can suggest is that scientists (that includes me these days) try to work more closely with the reporters, including following up on interviews, offering background information, volunteering to read any technical sections before publication. Sometimes it works, and it can't hurt.

But I don't think it's going to get better.
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written by MadScientist, October 08, 2010
It's not only the journalists though (unless you count the editors as journalists). Over the years I've also met a few of this rare type of journalist --- the science journalist. A good science journalist does take time to find experts, try to discover unreliable sources, and so on; however this all takes a lot of time (and money) and the people running the show believe they have better things to do than to pay for all that careful research and interviewing.

As for point #2 --- I'm uncomfortable with that phrase since it implies that somewhere out there there is a true god. It's a bit like mom screaming "don't use my good scissors!" --- a phrase which implied that in some dark and forbidden recess of the house lurked the evil scissors. Well, OK, it's a bad analogy - we can't deny the existence of scissors, only their moral classification.
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written by Galadriel, October 09, 2010
Soo...what can Florida voters do to register disapproval of the thing with the Geiers? When JREF blog posted the story the last time, I went to look up my legislators to contact them. Turns out the legislature is in recess, so nobody's there. Is there any point to writing Crist?
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Now what do I do?!
written by Hierro, October 09, 2010
I don't know who to vote for anymore.

Do I vote for the candidate who wants to destroy our schools by cutting teacher's pay and no longer requiring accredited degrees?
Do I vote for the candidate who is supporting anti-vax castrators?
Or do I vote for a Democrat?
I think I'll just not vote at all. It's all far too depressing.
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written by Random, October 09, 2010
You write “climate change denialism” as if it was something that is wrong, and should be warned against.

It is just scepticism, or rather the misnomer given by climate hysterics to a group of sceptics, with whom they do not wish a debate on the scientific merits (did you see what I did there, that little bit of British irony, just to show you true believers (is that another layer of irony?) what it is like to be labelled by your opponents in their words?). We have seen this week the end result of such dehumanisation of sceptics, in the 10:10 film, which openly states that the campaigners think people should blindly follow their lead, and that any sceptic (note none of those blown up even denied anything, they were simply sceptical of someone who had made no reasoned argument).

The ultimate irony is, of course, that the vast majority of those spreading the climate panic (you spotting these yourselves yet?) have that same ignorance you are talking about here. They have no idea of the science they are talking about. I only have a BA in Earth Sciences but even I can easily spot some of the gaping flaws in the "science" behind anthropogenic climate change (is that still an acceptable term? Hasn't the US government recently thought of another rebranding as the whole edifice crumbles?). Those gaping flaws are not just in the data, the processing and the analysis but in even calling the process "science". Calling what the UEA group did "science" is a terrible disservice to public understanding of what science actually is.

So we come back to the theme of this item, that people need to understand science more. How can they do that if they are being misinformed as to what science actually involves, the necessary standards of evidence, scepticism, openness and reproducibility. All of these were desperately lacking in climate research.

I thought the point of this site was to encourage scepticism and the sceptical scientific method. That is why I come here, am I wrong?
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written by Random, October 09, 2010
Hierro

"Do I vote for the candidate who wants to destroy our schools by cutting teacher's pay and no longer requiring accredited degrees?"

Teachers pay is one issue, a far more debatable one than you suggest, but I will have to take issue with you that accredited degrees are needed to teach. Regulation of teachers, as with most other professions, does not raise standards, it is just protectionism.

In this country state school teachers need either an education degree or a bachelor's degree and PGCE (post-graduate certificate of education). My mother was a fantastic, popular, strict teacher who got low-ability children to understand more maths than anyone thought possible (largely because she was not especially good at maths so understood their problems). Today who would not be able to start in teaching, as she only went to teacher-training college.

Last year I was unemployed for a time. I would have loved to go and teach in a local school for a couple of years. I have several years experience in vocational teaching in courses that require maths and physics, which I taught to people who had often failed to understand those same subjects at school. I taught the most difficult subjects on the course, and was considered a good teacher (much to my surprise). Schools are desperate for teachers in maths and sciences, I studied a broad science course at university after achieving top grades in the highest level of maths, physics and chemistry at school. I am a self-confidant former military officer who has a chance of controlling a classroom. I have teaching experience. Yet I can't teach unless I do a year of indoctrination.

Sorry, but bits of paper don't teach well. Good teachers do, bad teachers don't regardless of what paperwork they have. Teachers should stand on their own merits, employ them on the judgement of heads, sack the ones who prove incapable. Free the schools, free the pupils to change schools. Then good schools with good heads will thrive. Poor schools will sack their heads or wither.
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written by Random, October 09, 2010
Just to clarify: when I say "head" I mean Head Teacher, Head Master or Head Mistress, which are the British terms for what Americans would call the Principal.
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@Random
written by tmac57, October 09, 2010
It's interesting that someone with only a BA in Earth Sciences feels so
"self-confidant"(sic) as to find "the gaping flaws" in the work of thousands of PHD climate scientists who work in prestigious universities around the world and at NOAA,AAAS,NSF and NASA.
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written by Random, October 10, 2010
tmac

Why is that so strange? The flaws are there for anyone who knows what science is to see. Climate science is not science at all.

Appeal to authority is a classic logical fallacy, it is a meaningless argument. When that authority has been shown in their data, data processing and there internal discussion emails to be thoroughly corrupt, it becomes a ridiculous argument.

The only evidence for any warming is corrupt. The data from the USA, Canada, Russia, New Zealand, Australia and Bolivia are all seriously flawed, for different reasons. These are the vast bulk of the "warming" signature. Also your much-vaunted climate scientists refuse to use the most advanced temperature measurements in the oceans, as they show very slight cooling, rather than the warming shown up to the point the old methods were replaced. They simply stop the graph at that point. So that is the recorded data for all the oceans and about half the world's continental area unreliable.

Historic data from temperature proxies is corrupt and misrepresented in so many ways I am not even going to list them. A classic being the warming signature, again in Russia, that disappears if one tree is removed from the data set, a tiny data subset chosen for reasons known only to the "scientist" involved, who refuses to share. Any good geologist would laugh at the "evidence". Which is why the "scientists" refused to share their original data or their data processing methods with anyone outside their clique.

The only evidence that any climate change there might be is significantly and predictably influenced by human activity is from computer models written by people who already assumed their conclusions. They refused then to release those models or the data, to allow others to test and repeat their modelling. This is therefore not science. To be science it has to be repeatable, that is the core of the Randi $1,000,000 challenge. There has to be openness. I reiterate, this is not science, therefore the people doing it are not scientists. Your argument is therefore wrong even as a fallacy; the authority to whom you appeal is not authoritative.

Finally if there is human-induced climate change there is no evidence that the climate will be harmful to us. There is no evidence that our current climate is ideal. In fact in human history warm periods (like the Mediaeval Warm Period, warmer than today, that your favourite "scientists" deny existed) were periods of plenty and great human advances. Conversely cold periods such as the Little Ice Age (likewise) were devastating.

So on three levels your scientists have yet to make a case (the flaws are far deeper than I could even hint at here, but I can only give a taste to make genuine sceptics think and loo further). I am not saying they cannot make a case, that there is no warming, but they have been challenged many times and have not yet answered except to say "the evidence is overwhelming", without producing that evidence, even while breaking the law to hide the supposed evidence.

All the information to find this out is easily available, from reputable sources including government scientists and professors of science at reputable institutions, even from the so-called climate scientists themselves, although they misrepresent their information so you have to think for yourself.

It is also easy to find the details of the corruption of the climate scientists themselves, both in the general as to the pressure to keep to the line of climate catastrophe and the vast sums of money available just for mentioning AGW in a research proposal and in the specific, in the data, code and emails leaked from the UEA's CRU and in interviews with dissenting scientists who have suffered by this corruption. Any true sceptic would know that, not just blindly accept the word of a self-proclaimed scientist.

Interesting that on a sceptical website a post that advocates scepticism garners a net 6 negative votes. Some people here have to consider what they mean by scepticism.
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written by Random, October 10, 2010
By the way, if you do want to appeal to authority, how about one of the foremost authorities on tree growth who wrote to the CRU telling them that tree ring data is not a proxy for temperature? You would know that if you knew anything about the CRU data leak, as it was one of the last of the emails leaked, and an important one for originally verifying the leak as it came from a source outside the clique of True Believers.

He was of course ignored by the people who were your "climate scientists", who knew nothing about tree growth. They also, apparently, did not know their high-school biology, whereby carbon dioxide is the source of carbon for plants, so might influence tree growth directly. That is how good your "PhD Climate scientists" are at science.
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@Randon, re: climate change
written by bkthorp, October 10, 2010
Greetings, and thank you for reading.

We're not making a case re: climate change in the above article. The section in which it is mentioned describes a situation in which a New York Times reporter took a stance on the climate change issues without realizing she was stepping into a controversy. Whether we live in such abject terror of global warming that we've given up flatulence or whether we think the whole thing is a scam, surely we can agree: Reporters should think before they print.

As to our word choice, we used the term "denialist" because that is the term used by the parties involved in the described situation. We put "denialist" in quotation marks to illustrate that the term is not our own.

Thanks,
- BKT
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@Galadriel
written by bkthorp, October 10, 2010
Galadriel:

Thanks for reading! Yes, please do write Crist. And please consider writing Florida's newspapers and asking them to take science issues a little more seriously -- and if not science issues generally, then at least the possible castration of their future customers.

Danke,
- BKT
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Apeal to Authority
written by tmac57, October 10, 2010
@Random- Referencing relevant authorities for support of a position is *not* an 'appeal to authority fallacy'. If I said that Joe Blow has a PHD in history,and says that the climate is warming,or that because climate scientists believe the climate is warming,then it *must* be true,then yeah that would constitute a fallacy.Nice try though smilies/smiley.gif
To swallow the rest of your 'boiler plate' argument though would necessitate accepting that not only are the vast majority of climate scientists wrong,they are actively engaged in perpetrating a massive fraud. Are you familiar with The English libel laws? I assume that you are since you use the 'sceptic' spelling.I would think that you might want to tread lightly with that kind of loose implication.
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@Random
written by Hierro, October 10, 2010
There are a lot more debatable arguments regarding teacher pay than I suggested, but I'd rather not take so much time to write about it unless someone requests it.

As for the accredited degrees:
Yes you are correct when you say that pieces of paper don't teach classes. And I'm very aware of a number of teachers with degrees who are plain terrible. But a good teacher, who pursues an advanced degree in his/her field to become an even better teacher should be paid more.
Bad teachers need to be removed, but how to remove them and how to determine good teachers versus bad ones is a different argument.
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written by Caller X, October 10, 2010
written by tmac57, October 10, 2010
@Random- Referencing relevant authorities for support of a position is *not* an 'appeal to authority fallacy'. If I said that Joe Blow has a PHD in history,and says that the climate is warming,or that because climate scientists believe the climate is warming,then it *must* be true,then yeah that would constitute a fallacy.Nice try though smilies/smiley.gif
To swallow the rest of your 'boiler plate' argument though would necessitate accepting that not only are the vast majority of climate scientists wrong,they are actively engaged in perpetrating a massive fraud. Are you familiar with The English libel laws? I assume that you are since you use the 'sceptic' spelling.I would think that you might want to tread lightly with that kind of loose implication.


Hey tmac, I AM familiar with English libel laws. I've also dealt with bullies like you before. Just because most climate scientists are predatory pedophiles doesn't make them wrong about the science. The fact that they are wrong about the science, typically for political reasons, makes them wrong about the science.

The thing about bullies is they don't do well when you stand up to them.
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@Liberatorman22
written by Bluto, October 11, 2010
Uh, just an aside here,

If you'd state your position with maybe a tad less mindless vitriol and maybe tone down the use of bolding, exclamation points, and general hysterical blather, you just MIGHT be perceived as something other than simply another raving lunatic.

Just a thought...
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@CallerX
written by tmac57, October 11, 2010
In what way am I being a bully? My comment to Random was not to threaten libel,but to remind Random that alleging corruption in such a cavalier way, might be actionable in the UK. Personally, I deplore the way their libel system is currently.
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written by Random, October 11, 2010
@tmac

That is the very definition of the "appeal to authority" fallacy.

To support your contention that the science of climate catastrophe is sound requires you to present an argument, and saying that someone else says it is so is not a good argument. This becomes obvious if I counter your argument by pointing out Harold Lewis, Emeritus Professor of Physics at UC Santa Barbara, has just resigned from the American Physical Society due to the Society's support of "...the greatest and most successful pseudoscientific fraud [he has] seen in [his] long life".

Then of course the whole debate turns into a game of Top Trumps. There are plenty of people on each side of the debate to have a long and dull game.

Alternatively consider astrology. Would you take my quoting a self-described "astrological scientist", well-published in an astrological journal with papers reviewed by his peers, describing the workings of his "science" as an expert opinion? Perhaps, instead, you would consider his actual arguments. What is the difference? Why are you sceptical of an astrologer who refuses to support his claims with evidence, but not of a self-proclaimed climate scientist who also refuses to support his claims with evidence, even going so far as to break two laws to hide that evidence, one of them in a criminal conspiracy?

Of course climate scientists have been involved in a conspiracy of fraud. They have said so among themselves. The whole "science" is very new, and developed around the idea of human-induced climate change. Without that idea there would be no such discipline. The field expanded exponentially, but of course it expanded on a core of that idea like a pearl around a piece of grit, each layer necessarily conforming to the existing layers. There was no room for dissent, no possibility of entering the field without conforming. It was a field of "science" that developed in the intolerant, totalitarian atmosphere of the environmental movement. Scepticism was never allowed, and it certainly is not now.

Don't worry about libel laws, I have mentioned no names.
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@Random
written by tmac57, October 11, 2010
"Of course climate scientists have been involved in a conspiracy of fraud. "
Care to cite specifics?Names, sources.By the way,why do you think that
Nasa,Noaa,National Academy of Sciences,State of the Canadian Cryosphere,EPA,American Geophysical Union,American Meteorological Society ,American Institute of Physics,National Center for Atmospheric Research,Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society,Academia Brasiliera de Ciencias (Bazil),Royal Society of Canada,Chinese Academy of Sciences,cademie des Sciences (France),Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany),Indian National Science Academy,Accademia dei Lincei (Italy),Science Council of Japan,Russian Academy of Sciences,Royal Society (United Kingdom),Australian Academy of Sciences,Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts,Caribbean Academy of Sciences,Indonesian Academy of Sciences,Royal Irish Academy,Academy of Sciences Malaysia,Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand,and Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences,support the belief of AGW? That seems like an awful lot of "scientists" (as you like to denegrate) in on the fraud,don't you think? Of course,they can't be the *real* honest-to-goodness "scientists" that you like to follow,because,because..well,just because.Right? If I thought for a moment that you were arguing in good faith,I might pursue this pointless effort,but alas,You have shown your true colors (or should I say colours?) from your first post,so go along now,and collect your fee. I have better things to do.Cherrio!!!
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@tmac
written by Caller X, October 12, 2010
written by tmac57, October 11, 2010
In what way am I being a bully? My comment to Random was not to threaten libel,but to remind Random that alleging corruption in such a cavalier way, might be actionable in the UK. Personally, I deplore the way their libel system is currently.


Random didn't libel any individual, group or organization, even under English law. You're a bully because by implying s/he was liable for libel, you invoked the "let's you and him fight" argument.

Every member of Parliament is a sodomite. Please have me sued for libel.
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More proof that vaccines do cause Autism and there is
written by Bea, October 15, 2010
more Quack Science in medicine then anywhere else.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/376.html
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Last Updated on Friday, 08 October 2010 13:51