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Loving A Conspiracy Theorist PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Kyle Hill   
Thursday, 26 January 2012 09:00

Sleeping with the Enemy  

I am in love with a conspiracy theorist. While this is a revelation for me, evidently I have for some time. While I hesitate to define my partner by the few irrational beliefs that she holds, the statement rings true.  

I began dating my partner; let’s just call her Jessica, while I was still in high school, long before I became active in the skeptical community. When I did become more skeptically active (blogging, reading, advocating, etc.), a mere two years ago, I realized that many of the controversial topics that we would discuss in passing had slants to them that were recognizable to me. I had heard their fallacies and discrepancies from my inflow of skeptical media (when I was just starting out, mainly The Skeptic’s Guide to the Universe podcast). While this generated the occasional fight between the two of us, nothing really ever came of it save an eyebrow raise from me.  

Jessica is a very intelligent woman, having recently become licensed as a registered nurse, and I can say (though I am obviously biased) that she is an all-around good person. There is no indication from speaking with her that she may believe that crop circles are matted down by radiation beams from alien craft, but she does. Looking at her family, Jessica does not theorize alone. Jessica’s father and stepmother are big believers in the principles outlined in movies like “The Secret,” with much confusion about the workings of quantum mechanics thrown into the mix. All of her three sisters could be called “creatives” who routinely speak in what Jessica and I have affectionately deemed as “sparkle-talk.” It typifies the kind of New Age speech that conflates scientific sounding buzzwords like “energy,” “vibration,” and “quantum,” with wishful thinking into what most often sounds like a recitation of a Deepak Chopra love poem. Beyond this, rants by the likes of David Icke and Alex Jones find hold throughout Jessica’s family. I try not to pass judgment; everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion (but not their own facts), however uncritical. This puts me in the unenviable position of moderating my stance on topics and thinking less of the scientific faculties of parties involved whenever I meet with them. It must be clearly stated that these are all loving, compassionate, intelligent people that I care for very much, though my disagreement with many aspects of their worldview cannot be hidden. Conspiracy, you could then say, runs in the family.  

Jessica’s theories were benign enough at first, “I think aliens have visited us,” “the government does shady things,” “everything is energy,” etc. But perhaps the reason why the more skeptically egregious theories never surfaced was because I had learned, as she no doubt did, to avoid argument. Like it or not, I pride myself as being someone you don’t want to argue with (reasonably, of course). However, after she mentioned the movie “Thrive,” and the topics within of which I have already written about here, the gloves came off. Chemtrials, free energy machines, Federal Reserve rants, UFO’s, and “Big Pharma” all made an appearance. Any skeptic will immediately recognize these topics as tiredly debunked theories that typify the phrase “unsinkable rubber ducks.” Jessica’s endorsement of the theories, and her level of disapproval for the skeptical point of view touched off a fight that not only was uncomfortable for both of us (hitting to the heart of both our belief systems), but also shook my very notions about Jessica. I cannot say that I am proud of thinking differently of her after such an exchange, but the skeptical position seemed so counter to everything that I was hearing, coming from the woman I thought I knew rather well.

Interestingly, Jessica has a taste only for a certain flavor of conspiracy theory. She agrees on the scientific views of evolution, climate change, and vaccination. This is not of small importance. Often when in the grip of a conspiracy-style mindset, a whole portion of the brain associated with information processing is seemingly changed to accept a suite of beliefs ranging from AGW denial to 9/11 “Truth.” With the more science-based topics, Jessica scores very high on the skeptical scale. She certainly knows more about anatomy, physiology, and pharmacology than I do, and I trust her opinion on those matters. It just seems as though that when it comes to more socially motivated theories like “free energy machine suppression from Big Energy” or “universal energy oneness,” the same critical faculties that can implement treatment or therapy after open heart surgery turn off. Perhaps this comes from a socially constructed distrust of government or ingrained New Age mentalities. Either way, Jessica’s views on these topics smash against the wall of skepticism.  

And yet we, happily, stay together.  

Dealing with Compromise  

I have not let my feelings about her theories ruin our relationship, nor do I plan to. We have gotten past the arguments, albeit in a “out of sight, out of mind” kind of way. Just as my belief that humans do not have souls (because everything that you could call a soul is the mind, created by the brain), clashes with Jessica’s more idealistic idea of the afterlife, and is therefore seldom spoken of, our differing viewpoints on conspiracy topics have simply been quarantined. Being someone who calls himself a skeptic, I am aware that this is a fairly uncritical way to deal with the problem. Though we actively try not to talk about it, because it upsets both of us, I do not plan on letting it go completely. But for now, it is buried.  

If this kind of compromise, even if it is an unspoken and cowardly one, proves anything, it proves (to myself at least) that a relationship can handle the strain of two opposing viewpoints. I can only say this because the topics on which we disagree are rather nebulous and do not affect either of our careers or livelihoods. However, as a medical practitioner, if she decides to forgo vaccination because, “they haven’t been tested enough,” or some other hand-waiving reason that struggles to fit in the dissonance that the “Big Pharma” conspiracy theory constantly tries to shoehorn into discussion, my tune will likely change dramatically. I will draw the line when a conspiracy theory bleeds enough into real life to hurt people.  

I cannot stress this enough: I love this woman. We have been dating for a little more than five years and she is the best thing that has happened to me. Though my scientific career and skeptical advocacy takes up much of my time, I can drop the guard of incredulity for a while around her. Keeping up the skeptical shield gets tiring after awhile, and though it is a noble cause (I think), it is inevitable that it gets put down for at least part of the day. I can do this around her and relax. I am not advocating letting others talk nonsense without scrutiny, but rarely do we square off against pseudoscience and against those we love. The common skeptical tactics of questioning, pressing, and rebutting have a different feel in a relationship. Online, answering a comment that basically calls me out for being “too close-minded,” (or another anti-skeptic response ad nauseum), I am not worried about rocking the foundations of someone’s beliefs enough to encourage doubt or assert the scientific position. However, doing this to someone that you care about necessitates an entirely different approach, one that I admittedly have not figured out yet.  

Mind you, I do not let pseudoscientific assertions off the hook. I take issue with every one of them. Rest assured that the first time that she revealed her belief in chemtrails “engineered by the government to make you sick so that Big Pharma can make money,” I was at the same time shocked and disappointed. How could this woman who I thought I knew so well hide something that could so easily inform much of her thinking? As I said above, dealing with this sort of revelation in a relationship is not congenial to a typical skeptic rebuttal. Maintaining compassion in the face of abject nonsense is difficult. I will continue to chip away at the mountain of conjecture, but by taking a different road.  

It is not all bad either. Jessica adeptly balances me out even though she is uncritical about some topics. As a card-carrying skeptic, many times I find myself dismissing claims out of hand due to the classic “knee jerk” skeptical reaction. Even though we may be dealing with topics upon which the consensus has decided, she encourages me to consider other possibilities. She doesn’t know it, but she makes me a better skeptic as a result.  

My skeptical gun, primed by a daily consumption of blogs, RSS feeds, articles, books, videos, comments, etc., is now hair-trigger. This is helpful when you write skeptical content all day or all of your media is either skeptical or scientific (as mine usually is), but my sometimes aggressive inquiries have gotten me into hot water. Even a passing mention of quantum mechanics sets me off in the direction of decisive argumentation, even when my partner’s point is nowhere near the debunked deep-end. I enjoy being a skeptic, but my skepticism often conflicts with the one I love. An obvious solution would be to find a partner with similar interests as my own, but I do not see that as a reasonable or useful option. The few problems that my partner’s uncritical beliefs have ever caused me are minor when compared to our relationship as a whole. Perhaps the more die-hard among you would do things differently, but a difference in opinion (though I consider many of my positions to be factual) is not worth the dissolution of a relationship. Love is not simply based upon the acceptance or rejection of conspiracy theories. Everyone has a closet in which skeletons and less admirable or embarrassing qualities reside, and these accompany each relationship. Find me a relationship in which there are no personal qualities of each partner that are curtailed or modified in order to make the relationship work; I would be surprised if you could. I view the belief in conspiracy theories to occupy this relationship closet. It is surely something that I will not forget, but it is not something worth sacrificing so much happiness for. She would relegate my hair-trigger skepticism and argumentative nature (at least part of it) to the closet as well, I’m sure. Does skepticism extend into every cranny of intimacy? Should it? These are questions that I am still wrestling with.  

Love and Conflict  

The obvious facts are these: I am happy, I love my partner, she (hopefully after this article) feels the same way, I object to all of the conspiracy theories to which she is subscribed, and she views me as too “closed-minded” (we will let that fallacy slide). Among a world of possible problems a relationship can have, I should be happy that mine are so minor. Even so, these minor problems hit me particularly hard. Everything that I write about, read about, comment and talk about, disagrees with my partner’s specific beliefs. I have not decided if it is a skeptical imperative to do something beyond occasionally argue, but I am reminded that skepticism is not a religion or a dogma. I am not prohibited from cavorting with the enemy, or from loving a member of a different faith, as it were. As many leading skeptics have said, skepticism is a process. This leads me to think that my “tolerance” of my partner’s beliefs is justified. Rather than argue and end the relationship, or alter it to the point of dysfunction, the skeptical duty must be to reasonably and rationally discuss any and all points, emphasize the process of skepticism, and plant the seed of the conspiracy theory’s destruction.  

I am certain that my dilemma is not an isolated one, and I know that others have settled upon the same conclusion that I have been alluding to here. I know the atheist and the faithful, the philosopher and the mystic, the skeptic and the believer have gotten together in the past, and are no doubt together as I write this paragraph. To say that such a worn path is the wrong one is not warranted by observation. I want to be true to my scientific and skeptical background, but I also want to cultivate a loving relationship. My partner and I disagree, tremendously in some cases, but who does not disagree with their partner and find compromise (and over much bigger issues). Granted, as a research fellow with the JREF, having irrational beliefs so close to my heart is both dangerous and painful. But characterizing the entire personhood of the one I love by a set of beliefs that are in protest with the very rational and intelligent person that she is has to be an error. I cannot help but think that throwing away a relationship in the name of being correct is foolish. Relationships are about compromise. As long as she trusts me enough to voice her beliefs to me, I will listen, I will question, but I will be compassionate. She deserves that and more, as do the other human beings harboring sincere irrationalities. In the meantime, I will try my best to employ skepticism at its most potent: questionable theories will be questioned, arguments argued, and rebuttals rebutted. But my partner is not a debate to be won, she is a person, and conspiracy theorist or not, I love her.    

 

Kyle Hill is the newly appointed JREF research fellow specializing in communication research and human information processing. He writes daily at the Science-Based Life blog and you can follow him on Twitter here.

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written by bela okmyx, January 26, 2012
she revealed her belief in chemtrails “engineered by the government to make you sick so that Big Pharma can make money,”

This woman is now a registered nurse? If she believes in the "Big Pharma" conspiracy. how exactly does she expect to administer treatment to her patients? Crystals? Theraputic Touch?
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Relationships get complicated.
written by bftruly, January 26, 2012
Kyle,

Thank you for the love and respect you show others when you disagree with them (or they with you). One thing to consider is that male/female relationships tend to lead to procreation. And when you have kids, your mind changes and you feel an overwhelming need to protect them. The question to consider, and you do not need to answer in a public forum, how will you react when your wife teaches your kids theories you disagree with. How will she react when you teach her children the opposite?
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Been there, done that, no t-shirt
written by BigRed, January 26, 2012
This might have been the most impressive/interesting post I've read so far on randi.org (it *is* the one that made me get an account so I can comment on it). Let me start off by saying that I think I know what you're going through: I've been in a relationship where early on the dialogue involved a discussion about Christianity and when I professed to not believing, she said "but one has to believe in something!" and I just shrugged. And I have rational, skeptical friends who still baptize their children bc not doing so would strain their relationship.
But the relationship I was willing to keep mum for didn't work out and now I am with a girl that surprised me by being absolutely rational - which, tbh, I had given up expecting. Now, while she is, her parents (who work in health care) are not...when it comes to economy. I've been reading a lot of Bill Mitchell lately and realized how wrong the mainstream view of economics is, yet an amazing amount of people subscribe to it. Even though empirical evidence clearly contradicts it - but it's hard to bring this point across.
And my parents aren't either - my mother, another trained health care professional, believes that acupuncture actually helps her, and my father, left-wing as he is is also a practicing Protestant. And I try to chip away from the outside, much as you described, but I don't confront outright.

Having said all this: "We have been dating for a little more than five years"? WTF is wrong with you? Is it just being US-American? I've had a relationship for three years and you've "dated" the girl that's all that for five years? Is not committing so much a part of the US-American identity that you don't even realize that the words you use mean "I haven't committed to her yet"? There's a shitload of power in words and calling yourself a skeptic and not questioning the term "dating" when you talk about your partner of five years means the blinders are still pretty tight!
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written by Willy K, January 26, 2012
Interestingly, Jessica has a taste only for a certain flavor of conspiracy theory. She agrees on the scientific views of evolution, climate change, and vaccination
How about you tell her that these things are NOT true!
Bring her to a anti-vax rally, have her logon to that answers-in-genesis website, tell her that Judge Jones is an atheistic activist judge!
Afterwords show the documented trail of evidence that shows how these subjects have been greatly distorted by the woo believers.
Ask her to find any documented trail of evidence and the names of the people involved for her pet theories.
If she loves you, she will try to make the case for her beliefs, if she doesn't..... smilies/cry.gif
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You may yet be surprised
written by numenaster, January 26, 2012
When I first got together with my guy, I was shocked and dismayed at the number of irrational beliefs he held, starting with his Catholicism (which was only the first one I learned of), and moving on to demonic influence in the world (especially in the banks, lol), imminent economic collapse of the head-for-the-hills kind, and creating your own reality a la The Secret. I was convinced that his spirituality was going to be the thing that eventually split us up, because our positions are so important to us and so irreconcilable. And I was surprised at how much that prospect upset me, but I couldn't see anything else to do--certainly I couldn't abandon the thought process that led to my atheism, and I wouldn't count it a "win" if he simply abandoned his spirituality to please me.

It's 2.5 years on now, and he recently made my jaw drop by telling me that he no longer thinks God really exists--and this is after reading several books his priest loaned him on that subject, too. Apparently my steadfast refusal to be the self-centered greedy person that his church claims atheists are has made a dent in his thinking, and his regard for my brain has forced him to seriously consider my position on other things. Our discussions about the economic future now include actual facts from each of us, and we talk about the sources of those facts as part of assessing the likeliness of a prediction. Even though we still disagree about conclusions, our positions have grown closer, and I begin to think that one day he might be able to face life simply glorying in the wonder of the universe without having to assign responsibility for it to some nebulous being.

I think I've been doing the right thing by having respectful but honest discussions about our differences all this time, and I think you are too. Love is rare in this world, and it's worth holding on to. I figured out a long time ago that every relationship requires compromise, and everyone has to figure out for themselves what is worth compromising for. I feel very lucky that what I compromised on is now a shrinking issue, and I suspect that you and Jessica may well find yourselves in a similar situation eventually. People who are truly close to each other grow more alike over time, and you two sound pretty close.

Pay no attention to Willy K. Make your own decisions.
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written by Willy K, January 26, 2012
Pay no attention to Willy K. Make your own decisions.


Numenaster, according to your post your boyfriend decided to change his viewpoint. You waited patiently while he discovered that you were on the right track.

Your suggestions and my suggestions to Kyle are complimentary, not contradictory.

I believe that Kyle was implicitly asking for help in keeping his love and have her understand that the Universe does not work the way the woo-sters claim.

Jessica is the one who needs to make a decision. smilies/grin.gif
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Man, oh man...!
written by ithacaartist, January 26, 2012
I've been dealing with a similar situation for over seven years (And I do see BigRed's point, and confess to my lack of trust in this woman--in part because she seems unable to hold up her end of a rational conversation for more than a few seconds.). It is proving next to impossible to bear the disappointment and frustration that I feel when discussing things "across the chasm" with my loved one. I knew it would be difficult; and I still don't have any answers as to how a skeptic can get along comfortably with a believer--or vice versa.

J.'s accumulation of bogus stuff includes previous lives/Buddhism, Karma, UFO's, ghosts/spirits, anti-vax fears/concerns, belief in Homeopathy/osteopathy/flower essences, The Secret, these just off the top of my head. I knew about a lot of it when we started up; and I sensed impending trouble even back then because she managed a branch of a nationwide chain of stores that sell vitamins, supplements, Kevin Trudeau's books, etc. My darling has little background in science geyond grade school, or understanding of how science works.

Her Baloney Detector works a little bit: She rejected the notions of "Scream Therapy", as practiced by her first husband, years ago. But I suspect the Detector is not working optimally because it let a lot of other junk into her head.

About five years ago, I had the honor of attending the birthday party held for Carl Sagan's last father-in-law. And since it was held in her house, I definitely met Ann Druyan, Carl's widow. When I asked her if and how she thought it might be possible for a skeptic to 'get along' with a believer. Aware of her contributions to Sagan's last books, I hoped for a candle in the darkness. However, I was treated to a lame-ass response about piety, of all things! Perhaps she misunderstood my question. Sure, I can kind of honor someone's convictions. But I find myself honoring them better if their convictions are rational instead of oblivious to life and consensual reality. So, no help, even from a reputed heavy-hitter in skepticism...

I'm beginning to be persuaded that there can be no communication, really, across the chasm between skeptics and believers. It is as if we are two different species; we do not think the same; we do not approach life the same. And those of us who have tried to throw a line across, well, our average success rate must be near nil.

Clashing philosophies is functionally counter-productive in the layman's arena because few know the definition of the word argument. Without knowing the rules of engagement, folks simply wind up squabbling. Can't count the number of times my point has been countered by an ad hominem...I don't think I can do it much longer.

I feel the pain and frustration that any skeptic encounters when a New Ager calls them 'closed minded".
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written by Willy K, January 26, 2012
Jessica’s father and stepmother are big believers in the principles outlined in movies like “The Secret,” with much confusion about the workings of quantum mechanics thrown into the mix.

Kyle, show them that movie "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" Go to the Wikipedia article and follow the links to David Alpert, a physicist and philosopher, and how the filmmakers totally misrepresented his views about their ideas.

Let them know that "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" "The Secret" and others of its ilk are totally confusing simple wishful thinking and the fantastically difficult science of quantum mechanics.

Of course, it is totally up to you how to go about this without angering or alienating them. If you are successful PLEASE let us know how you did it! smilies/grin.gif
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This isn't the only factor in evaluating your relationship
written by numenaster, January 26, 2012
Willy, you said

If she loves you, she will try to make the case for her beliefs, if she doesn't.....


and

Jessica is the one who needs to make a decision.


But Jessica, and Kyle, have ALREADY made decisions. They decided to pursue their relationship in the face of this divide. My suggestion to Kyle was to enjoy the relationship they have, and that there is some hope that Jessica will come around. It looks like your suggestion is to force a showdown over this single issue. That is not at all complementary with my suggestion.

The note from ithacaartist shows the difference pretty clearly. He said
It is proving next to impossible to bear the disappointment and frustration that I feel
. The differences between him and his lady are much more significant TO THEM than Kyle or I are dealing with, and it doesn't seem like there is much room for hope there. Continual frustration doesn't make for a long-term happy relationship. So perhaps ithacaartist needs to make a decision.

When I met my guy I was seeing a therapist for other issues. I brought up this difference of approach to reality in one of our sessions. My therapist's advice was, "You don't need to do anything about this right now. When you need to make a decision, you will." I've been revisiting this advice periodically, and always came away concluding "Nope, still don't need to make a decision on this one yet." Now it looks like I might never have to.

I think Kyle may have things turn out the same way. That's because he and Jessica share an evidence-based approach to a lot of things, and they love and respect each other. Ithacaartist is losing the respect, and if it goes entirely the love is likely to follow. THAT is the time, and the reason, to make a decision on staying or going.
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Oh, and to ithacaartist:
written by numenaster, January 26, 2012
You said
I still don't have any answers as to how a skeptic can get along comfortably with a believer--or vice versa.


You coexist on the common ground you share, and hold hands with each other when you approach the edge where the differences lie. This only works if the area of common ground is big enough to live in comfortably. I'm lucky that my area of common ground is expanding. It sounds like you are starting to feel cramped in yours.
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written by Caller X, January 26, 2012
It's really very simple: all conspiracy theories are all true, all the time.

"Crazy in the head, crazy in the bed!"

Whenever someone starts talking about Big Pharma or Big Oil ask them "Where's Little Pharma or Little Oil?"

My skeptical gun, primed by a daily consumption of blogs, RSS feeds, articles, books, videos, comments, etc., is now hair-trigger.
That kind of overconsumption sounds like it's verging on tinfoil hattery. Do you also read daily about how to ride a bike?

This is a good first draft. Now go back and cut it to one-third the length.
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written by Willy K, January 26, 2012
But Jessica, and Kyle, have ALREADY made decisions. They decided to pursue their relationship in the face of this divide. My suggestion to Kyle was to enjoy the relationship they have, and that there is some hope that Jessica will come around. It looks like your suggestion is to force a showdown over this single issue. That is not at all complementary with my suggestion.

Wow! It sounds to me like you've given up on trying to bridge any divide. That saddens me. I don't think Kyle HAS decided to continue the relationship as it stands, otherwise he would not have written his article.

My suggestions don't have to be presented as a showdown. It all depends on how he goes about trying to helping her see the photons. smilies/wink.gif

If you ever have a life threatening disease I hope your medical professionals say/do more than say "Just rest, maybe it will get better." I hope they at least give you the option of aggressive therapy, even if is painful!

I have no argument with you about using loving patience. Consider this scenario though, what if your boyfriend decided to dive even deeper into the abyss of woo? Would you follow him unquestioningly to a James van Pragh or Sylvia Browne con job? Would you give your hard earned money to these scam artists if he demanded you to? Were WOULD you draw the line?

PS. I envy your boyfriend. You sound like a keeper to me. Don't stop loving him smilies/smiley.gif
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written by Chirez, January 27, 2012
Online, answering a comment that basically calls me out for being “too close-minded,” (or another anti-skeptic response ad nauseum), I am not worried about rocking the foundations of someone’s beliefs enough to encourage doubt or assert the scientific position. However, doing this to someone that you care about necessitates an entirely different approach, one that I admittedly have not figured out yet.


So, hurting people is ok, so long as they don't matter to you. That's an interesting position. I think I understand what you were trying to say, but on a moment's reflection, it's not a very noble sentiment.

It sounds to me as though your partner's more unfounded beliefs are the ones which lie farthest from her own areas of knowledge. That's typical of most casual believers, it's far easier to allow comforting beliefs head room when they don't have to contend with factual knowledge. Far be it from me to offer relationship advice, I am what one might call an interested observer, rather than a participant, but it seems like what you have there is an information deficit problem.
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Thanks Willy!
written by numenaster, January 27, 2012
Here's why I think Kyle has decided to keep going in this relationship: his last paragraph.
I cannot help but think that throwing away a relationship in the name of being correct is foolish. Relationships are about compromise. As long as she trusts me enough to voice her beliefs to me, I will listen, I will question, but I will be compassionate. ... questionable theories will be questioned, arguments argued, and rebuttals rebutted. But my partner is not a debate to be won....


That sounded familiar to me. It mirrors my own thinking, that our divergent beliefs are AN important part of our lives but not THE ONLY important part. So I don't think Kyle was asking for help. I suspect he just had to get something written this week smilies/smiley.gif

Bridging a divide like this can be done in lots of ways. The way I've been following is to use the scientific approach everywhere I can. This makes it obvious why it's a Good Thing(TM), and sets up a pattern of using that approach when we come to an area of uncertainty. If my drummer wants to argue from authority or personal incredulity instead, he knows he's arguing uphill because he's been taking that scientific approach with me.

Directly confronting woo is certainly another way. I've done some of that too. Sometimes it works. But the WAY you think and approach questions is what's important to me. If someone else follows the scientific approach, either they'll reach the some conclusion I did, or they'll prove me wrong in a way I can understand, learn from & accept. Either one is a win. Changing the way someone thinks takes a lot longer than rebutting specific woo. With a personal relationship, you have the time to invest and the incentive to make the effort.

In the medical field, there does exist "watchful waiting" for some kinds of cancer. Not everything requires an aggressive approach. You just have to know what DOES.

What if my guy were to take a left turn into the woo? Well, I've taken the approach before of asking lots of questions to pin down exactly what he believes. LOTS of questions. Eventually he realized he didn't have too many clear answers. Then he started reading, and I think that's when the slide farther into rationality began smilies/cool.gif I've attended his church with him a few times to listen to him play, but I didn't go up for communion or chant along with anything I didn't believe. If he started giving away money to scam artists, I'd ask him what they had done to be more deserving of the cash than the hunger relief charities he gives to now (I know his weaknesses, haha! smilies/grin.gif). If he wanted me to do the same, I'd tell him anyone who passes the JREF challenge is fine with me. Or possibly, just "No." We have a lot of autonomy from each other--this might not work for everyone.

Thanks for the kind words too. I used to think he wasn't a keeper, but he's managed to change my mind. Evidence piled up smilies/cheesy.gif
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written by Zoroaster, January 27, 2012
Kyle, this rambling post sounds more like an attempt to convince yourself of something you're really not so sure about. Stop worrying about the cause and the movement and how you will be perceived and think about yourself and your partner and your relationship. You claim to be diplomatic but your viewpoint seems a little smug and condescending in regards to your partner. I wonder if your arguments are in the form of you saying "You're wrong and here's why..." If so I would suggest a more Socratic approach encouraging her to question what she hears. I think Caller X may be on to something in regards to you perhaps going a little over the edge in your skeptic zealotry. After all some conspiracy theories, like the moon landing hoax theory, are misguided attempts at extreme skepticism.
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He said, she said
written by NobbyNobbs, January 28, 2012
I think it would be fascinating to see a counterpoint article by Jessica, "Loving A Skeptic".
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written by latsot, January 30, 2012
So people who disagree with each other can find love. Aw, it's the feelgood story of the year.

The thing is, however, that some things are true and some are made up.

Untrue things seem to end in horrible acts.

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written by corbain, January 31, 2012
Fantastic article. Thanks!

It just may be that the best tactic is not to force any issues to a head, but to continue to demonstrate a level-headed approach to things, and be respectful of her and allow her to make up her own mind. Just as numenaster mentions, she may surprise you one day by revealing that you've rocked the one foundation that counts the most.

My wife is very level headed, but not always the best critical thinker. She sees shows on ghost hunting and asks for explanations. I provide the best answers I can. We recently watched Penn & Teller's BS on ghost hunters. While not the best demonstration of skepticism (though providing a bit of entertainment), it presents a side of things that counters the one-sidedness of BS ghost hunting and psychic shows.

@Chirez:

There is a big difference between debating people with their guard up - who are just going to disregard what you say anyway - and attacking a loved one who respects you and trusts you enough to drop their guard. Anyone who is easily hurt by counter arguments shouldn't be debating anyway.
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written by Random, February 01, 2012
This could have been a good, sceptical artical. Until you mislabel scepticism as "denial", in the logical fallacy of insulting a person you disagree with instead of engaging the argument. This is credulity entirely equivalent to that you ascribe to "Jessica", so you should deal with that before you concern yourself with her beliefs.

There is much sound science that suggests that AGW is, if anything, a minor effect. There are many thousands of well-respected scientists in relevant disciplines who would attest to this, who you are calling "deniers" and equating with chemtrailers and truthers.

The assumption that human activity is causing dangerous climate change is, on the other hand, not supported by any strong science. Those involved in the claim have consistently been dishonest. They have hidden there data, refused to let anyone test their methods (this in itself means what they are doing is not science). They have not admitted to their own doubts, about each others and even their own work. They have lied about concensus. They have corrupted peer review, and had good editors fired for publishing sound papers. They have conspired to break both British and American information laws and regulations (FOI and EIR). They have constantly tried to shut down the debate.

It is the proponents of CAGW who use pseudo-science to scam money out of the unwary, and behave like the priesthood of a religion. Their opponents in the debate have nothing to gain, in fact they often lose money, prestige and influence when they insist upon real science.
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written by Random, February 01, 2012
However, on the whole, I would say stick with the relationship. My wife believed all sorts of woo. She had a friend/practitioner who is a qualified doctor but working homeopathist, whom she would frequently consult.

She hasn't taken a "remedy" in more than a year now. She even hesitantly suggested they don't work.

Who knows, you might even learn to extend your own scepticism, and realise that the media who give false information about religion and new-age bull are also happy to pass on nonsense from self-proclaimed scientists without any consideration of whether or not it is true.
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written by corbain, February 03, 2012
@Random

I'm skpetical about anthropogenic aspect of GW as well, but the point of the article was more about being in a relationship with someone who isn't as skeptical. In the Skeptic Society's forum (http://www.skepticforum.com/) there are plenty of threads to debate that topic. (I can't speak for JREF forums; I assume they would as well.)
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written by Random, February 03, 2012
Corbain

I know that was the main subject of the post; the problem is that credibility goes down when he is questioning someone's lack of scepticism then equates some sceptics with the credulous. Think of this: he is saying that Freeman Dyson is equivalent to someone who believes in chemtrails.
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Last Updated on Thursday, 26 January 2012 16:14