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Smoking is GOOD For You PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Jeff Wagg   

A gentleman dropped by the JREF a couple of weeks ago, and left this flyer (PDF) for us. As skeptics, we're committed to considering new data, and this flier with its title "Are You Smoking Enough to Stay Healthy?" made us wonder what we were missing. Please read this "enlightening" piece of literature before continuing.

According to the flier, smoking can do amazing things, like prevent alzheimers and some forms of cancer. It can also improve memory and mental acuity. And while this goes against everything we've ever been told, there is some truth to it.

Did I just say that? Smoking has some health benefits? Yes, some studies say it does. Don't believe me? Check out The Straight Dope for more on that.

Ok... so wow, could Dr. Douglass be right? Are we being lied to about smoking, and should we start smoking today to protect our health?

First, note the spelling of the final syllable of his last name. While this method of detecting BS isn't reliable, it seems to be accurate in this case.

Second, apply some critical thinking. Dr. Douglass is selling this information. He's making claims without presenting any backing data, and asking you to pay for the information. His motivation is to compel you to buy his product - not to give you reliable information. While this alone doesn't call his data into question, it is important to consider.

Third, the organization that named him "Doctor of the Year" was investigated by Dr. Steven Barrett of Quackwatch in 1993. In summary:

The National Health Federation (NHF) is an alliance of promoters and followers who engage in lobbying campaigns and many other activities. It is antagonistic toward established medical practices and uses the words "alternative," and "freedom" to suit its own purposes.

Read the full article to see a very interesting list of indictments against some of the organizations members. It's tragic that there are enough discredited doctors that they can actually band together and create a false sense of credibility with a pseudo-scientific organization.

While it is true that there are some studies, good studies in fact, that show a relationship between smoking and specific health benefits, the absolutely slam-dunk overwhelming evidence points to one simple conclusion: smoking is a significant detriment to your health. And following the advice of Dr. Douglass is likely to be counterindicated as well.

I believe we have here another unscrupulous individual who is trying to profit by telling people what they want to hear, rather than what is supported by evidence. The fact that his advice could potentially be deadly encourages me to add him to the same list that includes Kevin Trudeau, John of God, and Peter Popoff. And sadly many others.

 

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Hmmmm...
written by Skeptic, March 19, 2009
Whatever it is HE'S smoking, I'd like some.
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Controversial
written by TS, March 19, 2009
Nutters love the word "Controversial" so they are hooked from the first quote.
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written by Bruno, March 19, 2009
So classic. Some crackpot unearths studies to show that XYZ is not 100% evil, claims that "the establishment" has "suppressed" these studies or "doesn't know about it", and then goes on to suppress the evidence that XYZ is 99% evil. Where does he get the idea that health professionals aren't aware of the fringe benefits of smoking? It's just that they also happen to be aware of the associated dangers and the disparity between them.

Let's do a study showing that people who speed, on average, have more "quality time" daily than people who stick to the speed limit. We'll then write a book "why speeding is good" and campaign for abolishing speed cameras.
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written by advancedGIR, March 19, 2009
I had difficulties to continue reading after he wrote he used to refuse to have smokers as patients. If he clearly states that he his willing to throw away his profesional ethic for personal convictions, to me, he immediately fails to demonstrate credibility. (and I'm saying that as someone who has a strong urge to throw up at the simple smell of a smoker and who read that shortly after the recent bans on smoking in public places in several european countries, including mine, there was a significant drop in the number of heart attacks among non-smokers)
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written by MadScientist, March 20, 2009
Cancer doesn't seem to scare smokers and it's not a common enough problem with smoking anyway. Ads should show people suffering from emphysema; they suffer much longer than cancer sufferers and most smokers are guaranteed to develop emphysema. If people want to poison themselves, fine by me, but they need to keep their filth to themselves and not spoil my air. I always thought Sir Walter Rayleigh should have had his head cut off before he could introduce tobacco to Europe - then again, someone else would have introduced that vile weed.
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written by advancedGIR, March 20, 2009
I don't think emphysema is appropriate either, since teenagers feel immortal no matter what fate you threaten them with. But smoking may also cause errectile disfunctions, so medical authorities have the best tool to really make it uncool but they are too mature and stupid to see it.
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written by Geek Goddess, March 20, 2009
This wacko has been around for years. He's one who also promotes raw milk and calls pasteurized milk "poison":

Because proper understanding of milk, and its destructive effects when heat treated - and the remarkable therapeutic effects when used raw - I think we can:

* Cut billions of dollars off our medical bills
* Raise the I.Q. of our children
* And banish some of today's worst health disasters...

What if with just one single serving of raw milk, we could be well on our way to wiping out diabetes, tuberculosis, multiple sclerosis, high blood pressure...and much more?!


He must not be familiar with the ugly history of food sanitation (or lack of)in Dickensian times.
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How to Handle the Health Benefits
written by GusGus, March 20, 2009

If there really ARE health benefits from nicotine, then nicotine could be made available in a pill (or chewing gum or patch!) and people wouldn't have to inhale second-hand smoke. I have the same comment about those who rave about the health benefits of marijuana. Create an extract of the health-benefit chemicals and make it available for safe human use.
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written by Careyp74, March 20, 2009
I really detest how much weight people put on studies in general. They are nothing like experiments. Studies show that the rise in cola consumption correlates to the rise in murders. Experiments show that the two are unrelated, except that people tend to kill and drink more cola when the temperature increases.

Why would you assume that the higher amounts of heart related problems are at all because of the drop in smokers? My favorite bit mentioned in the Straight Dope blog is with smoking and Alzheimer's. In this study, you look at how much someone smokes, and whether or not they have the disease. Well, perhaps the inverse correlation is due to the fact that smokers are likely to die at an earlier age than non-smokers, and Alzheimer's is more present in older people?
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He does not have a medical license anymore
written by superfreddy, March 20, 2009
I searched for the status of his medical license. This is what I found:

Licensee Name: WILLIAM CAMPBELL DOUGLASS, MD
License Type: PHYSICIAN AND SURGEON
License Number: C40674
License Status: LICENSE CANCELED
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written by PsyberDave, March 20, 2009
I'm the "gentleman" who stopped by the JREF a couple of weeks ago to drop off the flyer.

I find this material amazinger, it interests me greatly as I wonder what the perspective of the author is. I wonder if they are mysanthropes or innocently misinformed or merely unempathically looking to make a buck in a market niche they see available or some other reasons. Maybe some people like being contrarian and some readers like to feel they are special because they are getting in on a secret or acquiring special knowledge that will make them special by knowing what others don't.

It may be true that there are health benefits to smoking, but I think the best way to examine the issue is to take all evidence, not just cherry picking results to suit one's agenda. If you take all the effects of smoking; heart attack, stroke, emphysema, lower rates of Alzheimer's, feeling relaxed, looking cool in the high school parking lot, etc., would smoking be beneficial ON BALANCE or harmful. I haven't reviewed the literature, but I have a guess from popular culture. Smoking is bad, m'kay.

Anyway, maybe the incidence of Alzheimer's is lower among smokers because they are dead before they become demented.


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written by Beamstalk, March 20, 2009
Just 3 things to add:
1. Correlation does not equal causation.
2. Correlation does not equal causation.
And finally,
3. Correlation does not equal causation.
That is all.
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Carnival Time
written by Realitysage, March 20, 2009
Sounds like smoke and mirrors in the typical funhouse attraction de illusion...
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written by hopfen, March 20, 2009
The primary purpose of most studies is to get to the bottom line, which is that more research is needed, and funding would be appreciated.
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written by Alan3354, March 20, 2009
I don't trust this guy.
I'm waiting for the pope to give his opinion.
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A good source of data for thoughtful readers ...
written by Rustylizard, March 20, 2009
I've subscribed to the Harvard Health Letter and the Harvard Heart Letter for decades. These publications have no ads and discuss, in some depth, significant medical studies and demographic considerations that cover factors such as smoking, diet, drugs, uncontrolled supplements, alternative medical treatements, and exercise. Often, one learns that such studies have been vastly oversimplified and overgeneralized when reported by the news media, and charlitans have been known to employ data from weak or questionable studies for their own advantage.

A person would be far better off subscribing to such university health letters than buying a book written by a cracked pot looking to serve his own interests. But it takes a little thought to read good articles, and since the letters often do not provide the conclusions sought by desperate people who want to easily lose weight with a fad diet, or find a reason to keep on smoking (among other things) they will always be less popular than much of the bestselling claptrap one finds on the shelves of bookstores.
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License Cancelled?
written by StarTrekLivz, March 20, 2009
Superfreddy:

does "License Cancelled" mean that Douglass did not renew it (I know reliable doctors who were accredited in multiple states and chose to let their licenses lapse in states where they were not practising, due to the fees & hassle) OR does it mean, cancelled by the licensing agency due to ..... problems. ???
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written by Willy K, March 20, 2009
Water Prevents ALL Disease!

Doktor Douglass should read my new publication entitled "Water Prevents ALL Diseases."
This is the technique in a nutshell:
1 - Make sure you are disease free before you start the therapy.
2 - Obtain a container large enough to cover you head to toe.
3 - Fill the container with water.
4 - Immerse yourself in the water, make sure your mouth and nose are under.
5 - Inhale continuously until you lose consciousness.

This method will prevent all diseases including Cancer and Alzhiemers!

Doktor Douglass should test it on himself. smilies/tongue.gif
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written by mandydax, March 20, 2009
Ah, named DOCTOR OF THE YEAR by the National Health Federation. What a commendation! I wonder if I can use cigars to take my Laetrile... smilies/tongue.gif
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If only I lacked ethics...
written by Skeptigirl, March 20, 2009
I could be rich.

Selling what some people want to hear says it all about this guy. And given the people still smoking, I'd say his target market is potentially worth a lot.
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written by Caller X, March 21, 2009
Ok... so wow, could Dr. Douglass be right? Are we being lied to about smoking, and should we start smoking today to protect our health?

First, note the spelling of the final syllable of his last name. While this method of detecting BS isn't reliable, it seems to be accurate in this case.


Jeffy*, what method of detecting BS are you referring to? The final syllable is "lass" so is he saying he's into girls and that troubles you, or are you calling him a pedophile because it isn't "lady"? If it's the double "s" that bothers you perhaps you should tend your own garden, as the French would say, except they would say it in French.

Unless there's a third possibilty I've missed, this is sloppy thinking combined with sloppy writing. Weak as water, Captain Peacock.

In my grade school history class we learned about Frederick Douglass [sic]. Perhaps you've heard of him. What does your "method of detecting BS" tell you in that case? You lose one letter grade. Miss Smith is in the lead.

*an homage to The Family Circus
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smoking
written by knitwit, March 21, 2009
Oh gosh, I clicked on the Straight Dope link and it took me awhile to figure out what it was. Now I feel dumb for leaving a comment there. I didn't know you were following up with more Dr. D. type stuff. smilies/angry.gif

Do the emoticons not work with a Mac? Mine turned into typing. Sorry I'm so illiterate, but at least I'm a good skeptic!
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x
written by BillyJoe, March 22, 2009
You did miss something but you're not going to find out from me.
And, please, no one else help him either.
There, you're going to your grave not knowing this very common pointer to BS.

Congratulations. smilies/grin.gif
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written by Caller X, March 22, 2009
written by BillyJoe, March 22, 2009

You did miss something but you're not going to find out from me.
And, please, no one else help him either.
There, you're going to your grave not knowing this very common pointer to BS.


Ah, the glove has been thrown down, and the game is afoot! There are few things I enjoy more than a good puzzle and a good pipe. To the Batmobile!
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written by Caller X, March 22, 2009
Of course, some prefer herring. Yes, I know it's "gauntlet" or "gantlet" but that seems a bit precious in these troubled days of modern times.

But thanks, BJ, for making it all about me. Top marks.
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written by Caller X, March 22, 2009
Of course, it could be something as simple as thinking that the final syllable is "ass" but that would hardly be sporting, although given Jeff's recent drop in thinking performance, that could be it.

No, there's something deeper here, something eldritch and sinister. Or not.

Thanks again, BJ!

mmmm, BJ.......
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written by BillyJoe, March 22, 2009
Nice try but our lips are sealed. smilies/wink.gif
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written by Proveit, March 23, 2009
As an occasional cigar smoker in the summer only(quite safe), I’ve resisted cigarettes all my life. So I wasn’t even tempted, when a friend solicited me only a few months ago, for his new business venture: a cigarette shaped, electronic nicotine dispenser.

https://www.myinlife.com/corp_site/home.html
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License cancelled
written by superfreddy, March 23, 2009
To StarTrekLivz,

"License cancelled" only means that since 1993 ha has not been allowed to practice medicine in the states of GA and CA. I couldn't find any further details.
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News!
written by DrMatt, March 23, 2009
This just in: jumping off high cliffs reduces your risk of dying of cancer!

Er.
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written by Die Anyway, March 23, 2009
And whether or not moderate smoking has a few beneficial aspects, IT STILL STINKS. And it still leaves burn marks in furniture, carpet and clothes. And it leaves walls, cabinets, artwork and teeth coated in a yellow film. And did I mention that it stinks? Whatever the benefits, there must be a better way to achieve them than burning and breathing tobacco.
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I don't care how dangerous smoking is
written by swordsbane, March 23, 2009
If I stuck a flashing light on my head and walked around with it in any public place, in no time at all someone would ask me to turn it off. If I became belligerent about it and refused, I could actually get thrown out of that place and if I continued to cause trouble, I could be arrested. No one would think I was being anything but an idiot and there would be no landmark court cases deciding my right to wear flashing lights on my head. I couldn't even get the manufacturer of the lights I was wearing to spring for a lawyer to defend me in court. I would be laughed out of the spotlight and rightly so

So how come tobacco is any different?

I really don't care if smoking is so dangerous that it causes people to explode when they light up or so healthy that it prolongs life, gets you laid and causes $1K bills to drop out of the sky. It's annoying to those of us who don't smoke and while you should be entitled to spontaneously explode if that takes your fancy, I should be entitled not to have you get any of you on me while you do it. Keep the ciggies at home. You're not being persecuted. You're just being rude.
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written by Caller X, March 23, 2009
If I stuck a flashing light on my head and walked around with it in any public place, in no time at all someone would ask me to turn it off. If I became belligerent about it and refused, I could actually get thrown out of that place and if I continued to cause trouble, I could be arrested. No one would think I was being anything but an idiot and there would be no landmark court cases deciding my right to wear flashing lights on my head. I couldn't even get the manufacturer of the lights I was wearing to spring for a lawyer to defend me in court. I would be laughed out of the spotlight and rightly so

So how come tobacco is any different?

I really don't care if smoking is so dangerous that it causes people to explode when they light up or so healthy that it prolongs life, gets you laid and causes $1K bills to drop out of the sky. It's annoying to those of us who don't smoke and while you should be entitled to spontaneously explode if that takes your fancy, I should be entitled not to have you get any of you on me while you do it. Keep the ciggies at home. You're not being persecuted. You're just being rude.


What's your pernt? He's not saying smoking in public makes you live longer. I agree with you about cigarettes, but you are marketing yourself as a real tightass.
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How to boil a frog?
written by swordsbane, March 23, 2009
What's your pernt? He's not saying smoking in public makes you live longer. I agree with you about cigarettes, but you are marketing yourself as a real tightass.


My "pernt" is that it's got nothing to do with how healthy or un-healthy smoking is or might be. If it were anything other than tobacco, it would be universally considered anything from simple rudeness to a public nuisance to smoke in public. Instead, smokers talk of 'rights' and 'It's my life' and 'poor us'.

Tightass you say? Silly, I say, and anyone on the outside looking in who'd never heard of smoking would say the same thing.
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written by BillyJoe, March 23, 2009
Also, remember to attack the habit not the person.
And a bit of perspective - second hand cigarette smoke is not equivalent to acid thrown on your face.
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written by BillyJoe, March 23, 2009
....anyone on the outside looking in who'd never heard of smoking would say the same thing.


Reality check...
...there is no such person!

The fact is that smoking was once accepted as a healthy activity that harmed no one and was recommended by some physicians as a treatment for anxiety. And there is a hell of a difference between ending a habit shared by many that was once acceptable and the activity of one person that never has been.

BJ
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written by Caller X, March 24, 2009
written by BillyJoe, March 23, 2009
Also, remember to attack the habit not the person.
And a bit of perspective - second hand cigarette smoke is not equivalent to acid thrown on your face.
...
....anyone on the outside looking in who'd never heard of smoking would say the same thing.
Reality check...
...there is no such person!

The fact is that smoking was once accepted as a healthy activity that harmed no one and was recommended by some physicians as a treatment for anxiety. And there is a hell of a difference between ending a habit shared by many that was once acceptable and the activity of one person that never has been.
BJ


Where are you getting this "acid thrown in the face" business? The Strawman is working overtime on your watch. Childhood Brighton holidays with the Dinsdales? Even today, some physicians accept heroin or alcohol comsumption as expedient treatments for anxiety, in cases of heroin or alcohol addiction (and heroin is more liver-friendly than alcohol). Of course a smoker who needs to smoke feels better when he/she/it smokes.
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written by swordsbane, March 24, 2009
written by BillyJoe, March 23, 2009
Also, remember to attack the habit not the person.
And a bit of perspective - second hand cigarette smoke is not equivalent to acid thrown on your face.
...
....anyone on the outside looking in who'd never heard of smoking would say the same thing.
Reality check...
...there is no such person!

The fact is that smoking was once accepted as a healthy activity that harmed no one and was recommended by some physicians as a treatment for anxiety. And there is a hell of a difference between ending a habit shared by many that was once acceptable and the activity of one person that never has been.
BJ


None of that is important. As I said, the health aspects are a fake argument, either for or against. I'm not talking about the harm smoking may or may not cause. That's another argument. I'm just saying it is accepted as wrong for one person to bother someone else in public, and if it continues, the perpetrator could be in legal trouble, or at least be kicked out of the establishment he happens to be in, sometimes banned permanently. However, when that bothersome behavior is smoking, if I complain that it bothers me, somehow that makes ME the rude person. I don't get that.

Never mind the issue of second-hand smoke being potentially harmful, smoking is something that affects everyone around you, and it is usually irritating to those who don't smoke, yet as irritating behavior goes, it is an exception to the rule. Instead of those doing the irritating being considered rude, Those being irritated must tolerate it unless they are in a place where there is a ban or THEY will be considered rude. That doesn't make sense. The closest you can come to it making sense is that someone having a nic-fit is potentially MORE irritating than if he lights up, but that's rather silly. In any case, there are less irritating (and more efficient) ways to get nicotine if that's what you really need.
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written by BillyJoe, March 24, 2009
Where are you getting this "acid thrown in the face" business?

I don't usually respond to your posts because I know they are not for real, but, for the benefit of our readers, let me just explain that this was a reference to the rabid anti-smoker attitudes of some anti-smoking advocates.

Thank you.
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swordsbane
written by BillyJoe, March 24, 2009
My point was that you should be a lot more tolerant towards people who engage in an activity to which they are addicted and that, at one time, was considered healthy, than towards some individual who decides to make a nuisance of himself by placing a flashing light on his head.

And the nuisance value of sidestream smoke is way overexaggerated

BJ
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written by swordsbane, March 24, 2009
My point was that you should be a lot more tolerant towards people who engage in an activity to which they are addicted and that, at one time, was considered healthy, than towards some individual who decides to make a nuisance of himself by placing a flashing light on his head.


If it were just a question of being tolerant of people who have an addiction, then I'm right there with you, but where is it written than I'm somehow the bad guy just because my eyes water and I start coughing when someone in the same room with me lights up? As I said, there are much better ways of getting nicotine than actually smoking. I don't have the same options. I can't control my reaction to second-hand smoke. I can either leave, or the smoker can leave, or the smoker can put out his/her cigarette. I've run into enough belligerent smokers who think that me leaving is the only fair resolution to that problem.

I object to this obvious double standard. It's not just the smokers. Either society sees them as poor addicted people, or as you seem to see them; as a product of generations of "It's okay to smoke" Those days are long over. Even the addicts have largely accepted the fact that smoking is hazardous, if not downright dangerous. It's time our culture caught up. How long are we going to keep up the attitude "It is not okay to bug someone in public unless you're a smoker?"

And the nuisance value of sidestream smoke is way overexaggerated


Don't even go there. I'm speaking from first hand experience and know quite a few people that have the same problem. I'll admit that the health effects of second-hand smoke are still being debated, but that has nothing to do with my argument. Seriously, if someone lights up in the same room with me, whatever I'm doing becomes impossible, and frankly I'm real tired of being seen as a rude busybody simply for saying so when it happens. I can't tell you how many times I've get a dirty look as if to say "How dare you suffer from my smoke." like I have a choice but I prefer to be difficult.

I'm all for tolerance, but that's ridiculous.
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I'm going there anyway :D
written by BillyJoe, March 25, 2009
I know such people as well and I'm torn between the explanation that they are just hypersenstive individuals and that they have a conditioned response triggered by their intolerance of smoking.

I used to have an exaggerated reaction to cigarette smoke myself, but that all changed when I met someone I really liked who was a smoker. Somehow it doesn't seem to effect me all that much any more.

BJ
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Now who's being intolerant
written by swordsbane, March 25, 2009
I know such people as well and I'm torn between the explanation that they are just hypersenstive individuals and that they have a conditioned response triggered by their intolerance of smoking.

I used to have an exaggerated reaction to cigarette smoke myself, but that all changed when I met someone I really liked who was a smoker. Somehow it doesn't seem to effect me all that much any more.


I don't know about 'exaggerated reaction' I just know it's a condition I and many others have. Anyway, I'm not talking about my reaction to smokers. I've never been anything other than polite. I'm talking about the reaction of smokers (and non-smokers) to those of us who can't tolerate the smoke. It's not "Gee I'm sorry you're having such a difficult time, but I REALLY need this cigarette" It's "Get lost. This isn't a smoke-free zone, so your problems aren't important." Brushing it off as "just" hypersensitive or a conditioned response (and don't forget you argued that society should be forgiven for their 'conditioned' response to smoking ads) is dodging the issue. Allergic reactions that kill people are considered to be a form of hypersensitivity. I'm not saying that second-hand smoke could possibly kill me (except maybe cancer someday) but there is nothing inherently trivial about it. My physical reaction is just as real and debilitating no matter what you call it. It's also harder to deal with and recover from than a nicotine jonesing, so why is MY problem always sidelined when I bring it up? Why am >I< supposed to just deal with it and stop complaining? Why do you try to explain it away as something that's not really that bad and try to impress me with how easily you've accommodated a smoker because you liked them well enough? Kudos to you, but meanwhile, people are actually arguing about whether it should be okay... no whether it should be a protected RIGHT to smoke around people who don't like it.

Sorry, but that still sounds very silly to me. I'm not going to go to a smoker and say "Just quit why don't you?" I know how bad the addiction can be. By the same token I'm not going to stand for anyone telling me what boils down to "get over it" or "can't you see smokers have REAL problems?" There is no particular reason for someone to light up at any given moment, no matter how bad the nic-fit, and if you need nicotine that badly, you can get it a number of other ways that don't bother the people around you when you do it. I don't have that option. In fact my ONLY other option is to leave, so pardon me if I don't feel the 'tolerance' of other people so much.
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Is it wrong to bother other people in public?
written by Trish, March 26, 2009
Last Saturday, while waiting for a streetcar, I was forced to listen to an idiot who decided that his mission in life was to share the value of The Bible with everyone within earshot, claiming that his mother-in-law's early death was a punishment she now wished she could have avoided by reading The Bible, and telling everyone that The Bible is the word of God, and inexpensive, so everyone should read every word. Sure, it bothered me, in that his loudness made it harder for me to quietly enjoy my own thoughts. So, should he be banned from shouting?

What about when, while he paused, I said to bystanders, "Isn't that the book that says those who preach on streetcorners have already been rewarded?", irritating Mr Bible? Should my spontaneous comment, irritating him, be banned?

Fran Leibowitz once said that being exposed to the annoying habits of others is part of what being in public entails.

Here's the thing - I think people have sooo lost perspective about smoking. Yes, smokers are likelier to die younger of nasty lung problems, as are nonsmokers who live with smokers or work in very smoky environments. But smelling a whiff of a cig on the street is an annoyance, treating such brief exposures as Threat Level Orange is not only out of proportion, it creates unnecessary conflicts within society.
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Blinky
written by nethead, March 26, 2009
If I stuck a flashing light on my head and walked around with it in any public place,... You have one of those BlueTooth earbuds too?
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written by Trish, March 30, 2009
First, I'm not a smoker. I quit 20 years ago.

But I have to ask, when a smoker is in one of the few places left where they are permitted to smoke, and is asked to put it out by someone who had to be aware that they are entering smokers' territory, is the asking to put the cig out not a provocative act? Why should the asker expect a reasoned explanation of how much the smoker needs that cig? That smoker is following the rules, smoking in a place set aside for that purpose. There's also the question of whether the "asking politely" might not be accompanied by body language that might indicate, say, disgust, or entitlement.

Even though there's a lot of hate-the-smoke-not-the-smoker rhetoric wafting around, it seems to me that it would be hard to be on the receiving end of the hate-of-smoke, increasing restrictions that go beyond situations in which smokers can do actual harm to nonsmokers [stay 25 ft from bus shelters, windows & doorways] and random people asking you to not smoke when you've been following the rules & are smoking in a place where it is specifically permitted and not feel put upon. Nonsmokers who request a smoker put it out in a place where smoking is permitted, who expect on top of that special pleading "I really need this cig" are out of line, IMHO.
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Well put.
written by BillyJoe, March 30, 2009
Trish,

You must be their favourite.
I got nothing but negative votes but you, saying essentially the same thing, have a neutral and two positive votes.
Well, okay, two of them are mine, but still.

BJ
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written by Trish, March 31, 2009
BJ, I think the evidence is that people are inconsistent.
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written by Steel Rat, April 12, 2009
Re: the PDF. Thanks for taking 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.
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written by Steel Rat, April 12, 2009
who had to be aware that they are entering smokers' territory


Where exactly is "smokers' territory"?
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