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That's My Kid Too PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Michael Goudeau   

tamyspeakerThe real science is obvious and overwhelming. Vaccines don't cause Autism. Mercury in vaccines didn't cause Autism. Jenny McCarthy's son was vaccinated after mercury was removed from the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine. Autism rates haven't dropped as a result of mercury being removed from vaccines. Autism rates are the same in vaccinated and non-vaccinated kids. There are big studies around the world showing this to be true. They are the best science we have and science is our only hope in solving this. Chip Denman said it best, (Forgive my paraphrasing) "Science is not a smorgasbord. You don't pick and choose what you want to believe. You sit down and take what you're served."

Autism rates won't be changed by Jim Carrey or Jenny McCarthy but there will be dead and injured people as a result of their anti-vaccine campaign. Some people claim there already are: jennymccarthybodycount.com Read about measles, mumps and rubella and the damage they did before vaccines. We've forgotten the damage these diseases and others brought before vaccines. Ask your grandmother. If we stop the vaccines the Center for Disease Control thinks we'll have 2.7 million deaths worldwide annually from measles alone.

That said, we can't blame the parents of autistic children for their frustration. Having a child with these problems is incredibly difficult. It's heartbreaking. It's maddening. It's not fair. You really want to blame someone or something. I know, (Cue the violins) I've got a son with Autism. Cut the violins. I'm crazy for him. He's the greatest kid ever.

As for the movie trailer: Personal anecdotes are not science but they sure look compelling on screen. It's exciting to see people mad and yelling and trying to save their kids. Most of them have nothing but the best intentions but they've fallen for a scam. Oddly enough, there IS a conspiracy. The vaccine scare is a known and well documented scam started by people wanting to make money off the growing Autism panic. It's not hard to find the names of the people who started this and you can read about their motivations. It's somehow funny to me that there is a conspiracy and that the people shouting about the conspiracy are standing on the wrong side but that's probably just me.

You see that part towards the end of the movie trailer where parents are talking about the improvements they're seeing in their children? That's my kid's story too. He is in a regular school, in a regular 3rd grade class, and he's keeping up with the other kids. He laughs and plays. He tells us he loves us. We didn't change his diet or put him through dancing witch doctor cures. We spend a lot of time teaching him the things he needs to learn. We taught him to look at people when they talk to him and a zillion other things that kids should do naturally. The improvements are amazing. We're lucky that way. Diet and detox be damned, I'm pretty sure this is the one thing all of those parents in the film who are claiming the great improvements did.

I need to say that I don't think I love my kid more or spent more time than those people whose children haven't improved. Autism is weird and complicated. I think we're no closer to understanding why some kids improve and others don't than we are to knowing what causes it.

We need science to help these kids. It's going to take a lot of money and scientists and those "oh so evil" drug companies to pay for the studies. I hope they find a pill that helps and that they get rich off it.

Michael Goudeau is writer, executive producer, and all of the big head costume characters for Penn & Teller: Bullshit! Goudeau was also part of the Penn Jillette radio show and is a relatively well known comedy juggler but really, how far can you ride that?

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written by MadScientist, June 29, 2009
Well, McCarthy is known for being photographed nude, not for intelligence. Thought is certainly something alien to her.

Now just because mercury wasn't present in the vaccines given to her kid doesn't mean that mercury in the vaccines didn't cause autism. Uh huh. It's a weird twist on homeopathy. In homeopathy, the absence of mercury is meant to cure mercury poisoning - but for McCarthy the absence of mercury causes non-mercury-related neurological disorders.

I doubt that a pill could ever help. Humans are defective and some defects are caused by 'switching' a gene on or off. If you can treat the defect early on a child might develop normally, but switching a gene later in life will not guarantee that normality will be possible. If autistic disorders are controlled by gene switching then identifying such genes will at least be a start - if the defect is something else requiring actual repairs to genetic material that would be yet another challenge. At the moment relatively little is known of common long-known defects such as the various types of diabetes. There's still an awful lot to discover.
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written by BillyJoe, June 30, 2009
McCarthy is known for being photographed nude
Do you have any evidence to back up that statement? smilies/grin.gif
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written by BillyJoe, June 30, 2009
I doubt that a pill could ever help...some defects are caused by 'switching' a gene on or off. If you can treat the defect early on a child might develop normally.
I think your last bit contradicts your first bit. smilies/wink.gif
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written by BillyJoe, June 30, 2009
Did one mother really spend $500,000 dollars on unproven remedies???

Did Carey really say that he "believes" there are too many vaccines in the schedule???
(He would know wouldn't he. I mean, he's an actor after all!)


First it was the MMR vaccine.
Then it was the mercury in vaccines.
Then it was other constituents in vaccines.
Then it was individual hypersenstivity to vaccines.
Now it's too many vaccines in the schedule.

And all along there has been no evidence for any of these claims, just a belief that it is so!

BJ
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Yes ..
written by Dr.Sid, June 30, 2009
Somehow people find themselves or celebrities smarter then anonymous doctors.
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written by LovleAnjel, June 30, 2009
McCarthy is known for being photographed nude

Do you have any evidence to back up that statement?


My husband has direct photographic evidence of a nude Jenny McCarthy.
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written by inquisitiveraven, June 30, 2009
Jenny McCarthy's son was vaccinated after mercury was removed from the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine.

Umm, there never was mercury in the MMR; it's a live virus vaccine, and thimerosal would kill the virus.
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written by Alan3354, June 30, 2009
Jenny McCarthy is attractive and has been photographed nude. I don't know her well, but she doesn't seem stupid.
She is at least misled, misinformed, and/or deluded about autism. IMO
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written by The_Libertarian_Otaku, June 30, 2009
McCarthy is known for being photographed nude
Do you have any evidence to back up that statement?


That's what rule 34 of the Internet is for. (Well, that and Playboy.)

How can anyone possibly believe the crap that Jenny McCarthy is spewing out of her ignorant mouth? She really needs to shut up and do her homework instead of spouting her lies that vaccines cause autism. (It's like saying that pirates prevent global warming. Kids, correlation does NOT imply causation!) PROTIP: THEY DON'T!

If Jenny reads this site, I have three words for her about her anti-vaccination crusade: Back. It. Up.

Without vaccines, we'd have a lot more deaths from preventable diseases. Does she WANT people to die? IS THAT WHAT SHE WANTS?
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written by avayan, June 30, 2009
"Well, McCarthy is known for being photographed nude, not for intelligence. Thought is certainly something alien to her."

Why? Posing nude may be a sign of intelligence. Heck, if somebody promises me to make money by showing off my belly, my next statement will be "Show me the money!". If I get rich by spending a few hours here and there in front of a lens, I'll be set for life and then I can spend the rest of my life doing MY intelligent stuff, not somebody elses.

But that is not the point. The point is that as scientists we must first come up with an hypothesis. If we are going to discover what is causing autism, we will need to explore different causes. Brainstorm! Every option musy be studied. What we have to realize, though, is that once experimentation shows our claim to be deluded, then the responsible thing is to abandon it and continue with the next.

I think Mercury sounded like a good possible root cause. It does not now, if the results shown are as such. What is the root cause? Heck, I bet 100 years from now our successors will be laughing on our ignorance, in the same fashion we ridicule our ancestors.

I on the other hand, have been tempted to believe that Autism may be some form of evolution but we are too primitive to understand it. I can of course be even more deluded than the mercury followers and have no evidence whatsoever to push this claim. But then again, I am just an electrical engineer, so that is none of my business, I guess...
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written by Willy K, June 30, 2009
Oddly enough, there IS a conspiracy. The vaccine scare is a known and well documented scam started by people wanting to make money off the growing Autism panic. It's not hard to find the names of the people who started this and you can read about their motivations.

Folks who pretty much believe in all conspiracies never ever listen to any facts that contradict their beliefs. In cases like the vaccine/autism (non)link and Intelligent Design where there is DOCUMENTED evidence of exactly who started the conspiracy and when and why they did so, some folks will still turn a deaf ear.

Michael Shermer's follow up to "Why People Believe In Weird Things" should be
"Why People Refuse To Believe In Unambiguous Evidence." smilies/tongue.gif
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written by epok205, June 30, 2009
I just wonder why the people who made that video don't explain how they got their kids to recover from Autism except for the vague notion that diet and nutrition had something to do with it. Are they selling a book or something that explains how it works?

The way the video uses vague information and music for dramatic effect makes me skeptical of it.
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written by BillyJoe, June 30, 2009
Jenny McCarthy's son was vaccinated after mercury was removed from the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine.

Umm, there never was mercury in the MMR;
Good pick.

I missed that completely on my read through, although I have often surprised posters on "Natural Health" forums with that revelation.
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Technically...
written by Griz, June 30, 2009
...every TV commercial is a conspiracy to get you to buy a particular product. While I'm not a believer in the vast world changing conspiracy theories popular with crackpots, I have no doubt that people will always act in what they believe to be their best interests. When a few people's interests line up and they get together to pursue them, do you need to call this a conspiracy, or business, or, hey, better yet: politics.

But I have a hard time seeing exactly who benefits from this alleged conspiracy against vaccinations and how?
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@epok205
written by JeffWagg, June 30, 2009
Gary Null sells books on "natural" nutrition and the like.
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written by Jo, June 30, 2009
I on the other hand, have been tempted to believe that Autism may be some form of evolution but we are too primitive to understand it.


Ick, ick, ick. Sorry man, don't mean to offend, but I think you need to read up on the whole 'evolution' thing. An over-arching, metaphysical 'force of evolution' might suffice for suspension of disbelief in an X-Men film, but in reality, that's not how it works.
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written by Hydrogen Cyanide, June 30, 2009
Griz said "But I have a hard time seeing exactly who benefits from this alleged conspiracy against vaccinations and how?"

Well, first there are the lawyers. Andrew Wakefield was actually hired and paid (with UK tax funds!) by a law firm to come up with research to help a lawsuit. The lawyer actually provided most of the dozen kids used as test subjects. (this is explained more fully in Paul Offit's book "Autism's False Prophets")

Then there are American lawyers who have made vaccine litigation their main focus. One of these is Clifford Shoemaker. Not only is he on the Board of Directors of one the biggest anti-vaccine groups, the National Vaccine (mis)Innformation Center: he actually tried to stifle a blogger who was reporting how much he was making with a very invasive subpeona (which earned him a sanction from a judge).

Then there are the quacks and labs. Didn't you see BillyJoe's remark: "Did one mother really spend $500,000 dollars on unproven remedies???"

There are a couple of labs that are used by certain DAN! doctors that seem to always come up with high readings, no matter what. Then the DAN! doctors prescribe all sorts of supplements, treatments and chelation. One enterprising fellow, Rashid Buttar, had a "chelation" cream that some of started to call "Buttar Cream." The Geier father and son pair (who have been cut out of the "expert witness" gravy train due to their testimony being deemed unscientific) have a new treatment they are pushing; chemical castration with Lupron.

For an idea on what these kids get put through, read this blog entry (the blog that Clifford Shoemaker tried to stop):
http://neurodiversity.com/weblog/article/184/
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Evolution 101
written by avayan, June 30, 2009
No offense taken. Luckily I understand evolution pretty well, so let me abound on where I am coming from.

Evolution, like you said, is hardly like X-Men tries to sell. It is in fact a series of change so diminute, that it is basically impossible for us to see them. If the new DNA happens to be on a carrier that manages to reproduce, then the new trait has better chances of moving on into more beings. Notice this does not mean the new trait will definitely move on, but that chances are improved.

The beauty of evolution is that if this new trait enhances survival, the gene carrying the trait is practically certain to survive as well. Whereas a gene that promotes destruction, should not last very long. Per example imagine a gene that makes me love the idea to jump from buildings. Chances are this gene will not get very far (specially if I go about jumping my fatal jump before I manage to reproduce). But if I have a gene that makes women melt at my feet, chances are the gene will move on for a very long period. Granted that I am making these traits up and there is no evidence that certain gene combination will make me want to jump from buildings or are going to make women madly in love with me. Unless it is the Robert Pattinson gene... heh heh...

Now, to my autism theory. What if authism is in reality a new rewiring of the brain allowing for enhanced brain patterns we can not appreciate because to us they look abnormal? Of course I am making this up and I have no evidence whatsoever to prove it, but something tells me it could be similar to how early primates slowly evolved into us. Per example, one thing I have numerous time heard about authistic people is that they enter this trance and their concentration can not be easily broken. Granted that this is most likely some form of brain defect, but what if it is not? What if this is the next stage in brain power where we actually need this kind of concetration to come up with the math necessary to solve stuff like M-String Theories? I found it very curious that it is very possible Newton was authistic. Yet, he single handedly came up with Calculus! I'll be frigging darned, I can not even understand Calculus with a "perfectly normal" brain!

To us, however, Authism (as well as any other evolution change we manage to spot)will look like an aberration, because it is not normal. Same must have happened thousands of years ago, when some primates saw this total abomination of a team mate taking that rock and transforming it into a pointy thing he used to throw at animals. We all know what happened next...

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written by LovleAnjel, June 30, 2009
What if this is the next stage in brain power where we actually need this kind of concetration to come up with the math necessary to solve stuff like M-String Theories?


From where comes the evolutionary pressure to understand string theory?

Evolution doesn't gift us with things that would be nice to have. There has to be some sort of selection pressure molding its direction. I won't pretend to understand what pressures guided the evolution of our ridiculously outsized heads, but they definitely provided a survival advantage. It seems to me that autism has never provided a survival advantage.
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@avayan
written by asmith, June 30, 2009
Here are a few things on the autism-as-a-part-of-evolution idea.

"Although early behavioral or cognitive intervention can help children gain self-care, social, and communication skills, there is no known cure. Not many children with autism live independently after reaching adulthood, though some become successful."

"Autistic individuals display many forms of repetitive or restricted behavior, which the Repetitive Behavior Scale-Revised (RBS-R)[30] categorizes as follows.

Stereotypy is repetitive movement, such as hand flapping, making sounds, head rolling, or body rocking.

Compulsive behavior is intended and appears to follow rules, such as arranging objects in a certain way.

Sameness is resistance to change; for example, insisting that the furniture not be moved or refusing to be interrupted.

Ritualistic behavior involves the performance of daily activities the same way each time, such as an unvarying menu or dressing ritual. This is closely associated with sameness and an independent validation has suggested combining the two factors.

Restricted behavior is limited in focus, interest, or activity, such as preoccupation with a single television program or toy.

Self-injury includes movements that injure or can injure the person, such as eye poking, skin picking, hand biting, and head banging. A 2007 study reported that self-injury at some point affected about 30% of children with ASD."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism

Even if you completely ignore that first part - which makes the odds of autistic individuals having children at all close to zero - what part of that seems 'beneficial' to pass on? The part that would allow a higher survival rate, I mean, and therefore have a greater chance of being passed on?

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written by Hydrogen Cyanide, June 30, 2009
asmith, what you describe is one extreme of the autism spectrum. The self-injury is not a characteristic of every autistic person, and repetitive movements are not always cause for alarm. There has been an expansion of what is covered under the word "autism."

You might want to wander over to http://www.autism-hub.co.uk/ to read some blogs by autistic persons, some who are married with children.
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@ avayan
written by BillyJoe, July 01, 2009
I...have been tempted to believe that Autism may be some form of evolution but we are too primitive to understand it.

I can of course be even more deluded than the mercury followers and have no evidence whatsoever to push this claim.

Of course I am making this up and I have no evidence whatsoever to prove it, but something tells me it could be similar to how early primates slowly evolved into us.


Befre even considering the evolutionary aspects, philsophically you are down the gurgler.

Quite simply you cannot get knowledge from ignorance, and that is exactly what you are trying to do. If knowledge is lacking in any area, you can't just jump in the hiatus with something which you simply made up with no evidence whatsoever and hope to get some free knowledge happening.
Do you understand the concept God of the Gaps?
What you are doing is essentially no different.

BJ
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Evolution
written by Griz, July 01, 2009
We use the term evolution casually here, but we have to remember that part of the process is natural selection weeding out unfavorable mutations. If autism is anything along those lines, then it certainly isn't any sort of beneficial mutation. In a natural setting left to themselves, I don't believe most autistic people would be able to survive to reproduce on their own. Humans are tilting the scales of evolution now, though, because we are causing members of our species to survive and reproduce who have traits that natural selection would eliminate. I don't know what the end point of that is going to be but it seems to me that as medical science advances, not only are we going to live a lot longer, but evolution of our species will cease because there will be no pressure from natural selection to promote beneficial changes. All mutations, good and bad, will be preserved. Since it's agreed that the majority of mutations are not beneficial, that doesn't bode well for us as a species.
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Avayan
written by Griz, July 01, 2009
I found it very curious that it is very possible Newton was authistic. Yet, he single handedly came up with Calculus! I'll be frigging darned, I can not even understand Calculus with a "perfectly normal" brain!


You confuse savants and autistic. Not all autistic are savants, not all savants are autistic. The most famous autistic person in the world, Kim Peek, the prototype for Rain Man, is not autistic at all. He is a savant with learning disabilities and agenesis of the corpus collosum (the two hemispheres of his brain are not connected).

As pointed out previously, autism is a spectrum, and there are folks with very mild autism that can function well in society. Google Temple Grandin for an amazing story. You've probably heard of her, she's the woman who "thinks like a cow". I don't know the percentages, but there are many autistic folks, and I'd hazard a guess and say the majority, who are not savants, can barely learn the basic skills necessary to care for themselves, and will never be able to contribute to the advancement of science or the arts, much less simply live on their own.

This romanticizing of autism and confusing it with being a savant makes for quite a bit of mistaken information floating around out there.
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written by patrick767, July 01, 2009
Ugh... this crap ticks me off. They aren't just taking people's money. That would be bad enough. They are killing children with their garbage claims.

His advocacy against vaccines is why I cringed when there was talk that Obama would make Robert Kennedy Jr. the head of the EPA. That position obviously needs to go to someone who has some understanding of science. Fortunately Obama went with Lisa Jackson instead.
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Autistic kids "unproductive members of society"?
written by Raindoggy, July 01, 2009
The most offensive part of the anti-vac camp is their almost unified stance that autistic kids are useless, and will never amount to anything. Like the person who said "Allof your dreams for you child to reach their full potential" or something like that (paraphrasing. I work with autistic people. Many of them are good friends. All of them are perfect examples of how to tap into your own potential and defy almost insurrmountable challenges. I cannot make the same claim for most of the "normal" folk I know.

I am sickened by parents who have given up on their "damaged" child because they wated a normal life for them.

Just ask Temple Grandin how unproductive she feels.
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Evidence against vaccination - autism link
written by aob, July 01, 2009
I agree that the link between autism and vaccinations seems to lack any supporting evidence, but I have yet to see a single author on this site provide references that include actual evidence to the contrary. In this article, Michael simply cites " big studies around the world" as evidence that there is no link between autism and vaccinations. How about some actual references that we can use when we get into a debate against this anti-vaccine zealots?

Let's practice what we preach here. No more unsupported statements about the lack of relationship between vaccinations & autism. If someone is going to make a statement about the situation in either direction, let's see some evidence. To the regular JREF posters: Point us in the direction of the data that vindicate vaccinations.
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Regarding evidence and links
written by BillyJoe, July 01, 2009
@ aob

You have to remember that this is Swift.
Swift is for banter.
No one ever bothers with evidence and links.

If you want serious in depth discussion, complete with evidence and links, and you have the time to do all that, you need to go to the forums.
In fact, search the forums, because this topic has been done to death there several times over the years.

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Here you go...
written by Raindoggy, July 01, 2009
For additional citation google scholar has it all. Just search "autism vaccines".

http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/...ncet/Brent Taylor June 1999.pdf.

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/13/1763


From "Thimerosal-Containing Vaccines and Autistic Spectrum Disorder: A Critical Review of Published Original Data
Sarah K. Parker, MD*, Benjamin Schwartz, MD, James Todd, MD* and Larry K. Pickering, MD
Department of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital and University of Colorado Health Sciences Center, Denver, Colorado"

Conclusions. Studies do not demonstrate a link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, and the pharmacokinetics of ethylmercury make such an association less likely. Epidemiologic studies that support a link demonstrated significant design flaws that invalidate their conclusions. Evidence does not support a change in the standard of practice with regard to administration of thimerosal-containing vaccines in areas of the world where they are used.


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written by BillyJoe, July 01, 2009
No one ever bothers with evidence and links.
...except Raindoggy
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written by dolandilae, July 01, 2009
I'm reminded on the scene in the movie Apocalypse Now where Colonel Kurtz recants a story about villagers hacking off the arms of children after they had been given polio vaccines. This is a ferver born is mistrust, fear, confusion, and a lot of other emotional states I probably couldn't begin to imagine; These people have given up on reason, and have turned to hysteria for comfort. While they may not be lopping off the arms of children 'yet', they certainly are attempting to do something perhaps more harmful, and set all children back to the days where polio crippled significant portions of the population.

I also have to question the 1 in 5 statistic that was being thrown out... really? 20% of children today have autism?, obviously i haven't done my own independant study, but that statistic seems dubious to me.. much in the same way that the statistic of hundreds of thousands of species going extinct every year strikes me as dubious when not a single one can be named. Numbers dont lie, people lie.. and I have to lean towards the chain of thinking that this is less about stopping autism and more about taking down the big business of pharmaceutical companies. It doesn't seem too hard to get a group of well meaning people scared enough to protest, so long as you give them a 'feel good' disguise to hide your true intentions.. Greenpeace seems to use the same tactics in using environmental hysteria to try to shut down capitalism for instance.

Once the whole mercury nonsense is disproven, I predict that Vaccine hysteria and Ecohysteria fronts are going to merge.. and somehow GE foods, logging, capitalism and pharmiceuticals will be the central cause of all thier problems.. Somehow an envisioned Utopia where Socialism, Facism, and Anarchy will somehow live harmoniously for the good of the people... Where everyone gets healthy food on the table, animals are treated with the same respect as people, all diseases go away, global temperatures are wired directly to a central thermostat so as to advoid any unexpect fluxations, and no animal will ever go extinct again.
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dolandilae
written by Griz, July 02, 2009
According to a recent article I saw in the journal of the American Speech-Language and Hearing Association (ASHA) the current rate of autism diagnoses is 1 in 125, not 1 in 5. One in 125 is alarming enough to me.
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written by BillyJoe, July 02, 2009
the current rate of autism diagnoses is 1 in 125, not 1 in 5. One in 125 is alarming enough to me.
1 in 125 have ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). But some with this diagnosis are barely different from you and me. There is now an advantage to having such a diagnosis in the form of school aids and assistance for parents and, of course, there is no longer a stigma attached to the diagnosis (one poster here actually wonders whether it is a higher form of being, but that's a bit of a stretch if not completely wrong).

BJ
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smart-sounding vocabulary
written by tctheunbeliever, July 03, 2009
I hate to nitpick, but I think you mean "par exemple", not "per example"
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Website
written by Eosine, July 03, 2009
Try www.stopjenny.com for more information about how misinformed she and others that support Generation Rescue are.
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