Like it? Share it!

Sign up for news and updates!






Enter word seen below
Visually impaired? Click here to have an audio challenge played.  You will then need to enter the code that is spelled out.
Change image

CAPTCHA image
Please leave this field empty

Login Form



What Should We Do? PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Jeff Wagg   

We encounter many interesting people in the course of our daily dealings with the JREF $1,000,000 Challenge applicants. Many folks are sincere and believe they truly have a paranormal or supernatural ability that they can demonstrate to us. Of these, some are simply mistaken. Dowsing, the most common claim, can easily fool average people into believing in the paranormal, and though we can completely explain what's happening, they find it hard to let go of that "special" feeling.

But then there are people like "Herc." Herc, as he calls himself in the Swift comments hasn't to the best of my knowledge actually applied for the challenge, but he's been writing to us for quite a while, absolutely convinced that he has supernatural powers. Lately, he's been posting links for his website, which I will hesistantly link to here.

To Herc, anyone who looks at his "evidence" and doesn't see clear direct proof for his ability to "channel prophecy" is either lying or delusional. Here's an example of his power:

Last week I posted that I did a psychic channel and the T/X star of Terminator 3 Kristanna Lukan was a suitable mate for me! The next day the local paper's leading story was DON'T MISS THE BOAT ANNA. (I'm in Australia)

Both times I stated in public I was psychic I got *answers* from the world to support me.

What do you think? Impressed? Confused? To be clear, he's claiming that the word "Anna" appearing in the paper is indicative that his "channeling" was correct, as it's part of Kristanna's name. As is hopefully obvious to most of you, I see nothing on that page except the vaguest connections between words. Yet to Herc, this is proof positive that he's the real thing. He has also claimed to be God, Adam, and believes the movie The Truman Show is real – you guessed it, he's Truman.

I don't bring Herc to your attention for ridicule. I bring him up because he represents a real problem for the challenge. In my lay opinion, it's likely that he's suffering from a mental illness, and I urged him to see a psychiatrist. But for the integrity of the challenge, should we test someone like this?

Nevermind the difficulty in coming to agreement on a protocol, or the likliehood that he'll never be able to fill out the application form. Should the challenge be open to all, even people like Herc? If it's not, how and where do we draw the line?

It's not such an easy question to answer.

It's our job to take challenge claims seriously, no matter how silly they may seem to us at the time. If someone claims they can turn into a chicken, we have to carry on and give them a chance to prove it. If that sounds ridiculous, consider the claims of psychics and tell me what the difference is. I'll answer for you – the answer is that many people believe in psychics. But as there is no evidence for either claim, they're equally silly.

The only way the challenge works is if we're willing to test silly claims, because in the end, nearly all of them are.

However, If we allow people like Herc, we may be feeding into his delusion, and possibly making him worse. (I'm aware that this article is also doing that, but I decided to bring this to public attention this once – there are MANY applicants like Herc.) As I'm sure he'll read this article, we may get evidence of that fear.

We do have a clause that allows us to terminate a challenge application if we believe carrying out the test will harm either the applicant or someone else (this was employed once when a firewalker was willing to walk across glowing hot steel plates) and we could simply invoke that in these cases. We would draw criticism from some for "weaseling out" of a challenge because we were scared, or whatever, but it may be the right thing to do. Perhaps we should ask them to provide documentation from a mental health professional stating that their health can withstand taking the challenge.

I wish there was a way for the JREF to have a psychologist on staff to help us not only evaluate these folks but to try to get them the help they so desperately need. If our job is to educate the public about issues surrounding the paranormal and superatural (and it is), it follows that we try to help those whose perception is skewed by faulty brain activity. After all, the end result is someone more closely aligned with reality, at least we hope so. Needless to say, we don't have the resources to do anything like this.

So we will carry on, treating each case individually. I assure you that we are not interested in ridiculing people who are genuinely ill. But we must maintain the integrity of the challenge, and cases like this make that difficult. Your comments are welcomed.

 

 

Trackback(0)
Comments (189)Add Comment
Another thing to add to the challenge application
written by Sc00ter, September 16, 2009
What about requesting proof that an applicant, if they seem to be off their rocker for whatever reason, has had a psychological evaluation. Clearly that would be easier than getting an academic to sign off on the claim, or to get a media presence .
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +11
Two Sides of the Same Coin?
written by GMJ, September 16, 2009
It can be difficult tell the difference between someone with a mental illnes who suffers from delusions and someone like Sylvia Browne who is just a liar.

Maybe one standard for accepting an application could be that someone who has the ability to apply and do the necessary steps maybe mentally healthy enough to take the challenge.

I once had a neighbor who seemed to have it together in most respects yet he insisted he was a ex secret astronaut who had visited the moon on Apollo 24.
So maybe sometimes it is difficult to tell a sincere delusional person from an outright fraud.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
...
written by Rrose Selavy, September 16, 2009
I thought the recent added clause to the MDC that claimants had to have "media" presence or academic interest/verification before they can apply would excliude most of the obviously crazy claimants with a website and too much tiem on their hands.

-
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +7
...
written by Rrose Selavy, September 16, 2009
or "time" even....
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +5
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
Bats in the belfry, and such...
written by Michieux, September 16, 2009
In my opinion, JREF ought to give people like "Herc" a wide berth for the simple reason that whether nuts or not (and I do consider almost all of them to be of dubious mental health), what is to be gained by going through the charade of testing them, apart from giving some folks a few questionable laughs?

The JREF's resources might be better spent in chasing the "big guns" of the woo world by publicly calling them out on their claims. People such as Sylvia Browne, John Edward, and James Van Praagh are let off all too lightly, I think, and need to be held to account.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +18
Perhaps a preliminary preliminary?
written by CasaRojo, September 16, 2009
For suspected seriously delusional. In order not to waste time and resources. Hey!, send the "very unusual" to me. I'm used to it. smilies/grin.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by Sc00ter, September 16, 2009
I don't get this Truman show thing... Who is watching Herc? What channel/station?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
I smell Prime Time
written by LibraryGuy, September 16, 2009
Hi there!

I honestly think you should just suggest a TV show for these people. American Idol always manages to get a bunch of delusional people who think that their singing/performance abilities puts them on par with Bon Jovi and Celine Dion. Are they that much more deluded than someone who feels their ideomotor affect helps them find gold? I know it sounds kind of cruel, but then again not half as cruel as the majority of reality shows that humiliate people, ridicule them, or even break up their marriages/relationships. I think there's pretty big money in watching a guy try to walk over red-hot iron plates, or even listening to them rant for 15 minutes on how the reptilian people are taking over the government. I don't think that the viewing audience would be disillusioned by not seeing any REAL psychics any more than Ghost Hunters loses viewers by not finding any ghosts! smilies/wink.gif Any decent production team could hype the build-up to the test with dramatic music and hummingbird-quick jump cuts until the audience is convinced that this time, oh yes THIS TIME, it willl be a real display of the paranormal. Then we get a nice little denouement from the host* saying to tune in next week for something REALLY surprising!! (the same damn thing)

Maybe for sweeps week, you can even have Adam and Jaime come in to demonstrate how the psychic effect WOULD have looked! (but with 80 lbs of TNT, natch)

-- Craig/LibraryGuy

* and when I say "The Host", I mean ME, since you'd naturally hire me to host this thrilling new program since it was my idea. [nods]
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +9
Is Herc a women?
written by STrimmer, September 16, 2009
I hope so because Kristanna Loken has come out as a lesbian, plus you keep spelling her name wrong. What if you saw the headline "Come Out to See the Krist" or the "Stan"? Would that have convinced you as well?

david mab: You are diagnosable, see someone to get help, fast!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
The Truman Show
written by lippard, September 16, 2009
Herc should meet Chris Roller:

http://www.mytrumanshow.com/

But then again, that might produce results like the _Three Christs of Ypsilanti_. People with the same delusion of identity may not get along, for some reason.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by QHudspeth, September 16, 2009
@Sc00ter Nah, every applicant should have a psych eval, that way there is no discrimination. But JREF would have to supply a source of credible psychiatrists, or applicants would get any old quack to sign off on them. Perhaps two separate opinions would be necessary. I'm not sure the JREF wants to get into all that. What a can of worms. smilies/sad.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by sjtrimmer@gmail.com, September 16, 2009
At least I would be able to see why that would make since to you, that is if your name is Truman.

How do you know that the article isn't telling you that you should go after Jodie Foster, who played Anna Leonowens in the movie Anna and the King"?

Or maybe it is an anagram from Nana, and you should date my grandmother?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +8
The JREF is not a mental health care provider ...... but....
written by Steve Packard, September 16, 2009
This is all a very good point. I don't know what the answer is, because clearly the JREF is not a mental health care organization and it would not be appropriate for the foundation to try to cater to the needs of people with delusions. It would also be something that would occupy far too many resources of the foundation.

On the other hand, when someone contacts you who has a very clear cut problem that is not being treated, it seems that the ethical thing to do, if only for the sake of basic humanity, is to try to refer them to help or at least try to convince them to get some. Unfortunately they're generally not very receptive to this and it can easily turn into a long drawn out affair of trying to get them to go for some help - this is just not something that the JREF needs to spend time on. If they're so delusional that they may pose a threat to themselves or their community, then what? If they actually state that they are likely to harm themselves or others, then you can call the police but otherwise there's very little that can be done.

Harmless though they may seem, many people who have severe delusions like this are hiding much darker things. Phillip Garrido, the man accused of abducting and holding Jaycee Lee Dugard had claimed he had the ability to manifest and bend sounds and communicate with God and angles. He also claimed religious authority. Reading about him I was very struck by how much he reminded me of some of the applicants to the MDC.

John T. Jamelske of Syracuse New York held captive at least five women in a "dungon" he built under his house from 1988 to 2003. He believed that this was commanded by god. He also believed he was helping the young women, that he should be rewarded and loved by them and that his actions were legal. When caught, he seemed to fail to understand he had committed a server crime and believed that he would only get a few hours of community service at worst. He also seems to think that he was caught due to some kind of evil spirit.

Joseph Newman claimed to have created a free energy machine. Randi proclaimed him a crackpot in the 1980's. His claims have been rambling and generally difficult to follow. HE also claims he is the third profit of god (After Jesus and Mohamed). A few years ago he stated that he had been ordered by god to marry the eight year old daughter of a woman he knew. He claimed that doing so would bring peace to the Middle East. Also, he made no secret of his intent to consummate the relationship. Police and child protective services had to step in. Newman has also threatened numerous individuals and has restraining orders against him.

Make no mistake, these mentally ill people can be a danger. Some are, some aren't. It's difficult, if not impossible to tell who is, but the answer in all cases is that they need to have some kind of professional help, medication or therapy. Thus when one encounters someone like this, there is a real problem in terms of what to do. They can't be compelled to help unless they are so mentally ill that they qualify as being legally insane. This is again, not the place for the JREF to make a decision.

There simply might not be an answer to this conundrum. All I can think of is the obvious: "Don't worry about it. Let Alison deal with it."
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +12
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by Steve Packard, September 16, 2009
I dont' understand how people can see that I applied for a paranormal prize, claiming I was
Adam of the bible, and my address on the application was 4 Macintosh St. If I was a skeptic
examining the applications I would jump out of my seat. FOR APPLE. It's millions to one.
What bigger sign could you want? But everyone as far as I can see, is just completely blind.
I don't get it.


The probability of it being "4 Macintosh Street" is low, but by this logic it could be any number of things. If it were "4 Apple Street" wouldn't it be even more explicit a reference?

It could also be "Adam Street" or "Eve Street" or "Cane Street" or "Eden Street" or it could be that the address is in the town of "Appleton" or "Snake River" or it could even be "4 Apple Street, Eve Gardens" Hell, it could even be "Church Street." It could also be any number of varieties of apple: Delicious, Granny Smith, Bramley, Jonathan, Golden

If you look hard enough you will find confirmation.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +9
...
written by Diverted Chrome, September 16, 2009
Classic Schizophrenia symptoms:

Delusions - false beliefs strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence, for example,
1. Believing that people are doing things when there is no external evidence that such things are taking place.
2. Delusions of reference - when things in the environment seem to be directly related to you even though they are not. For example it may seem as if people are talking about you or special personal messages are being communicated to you through the media.
3. Somatic Delusions are false beliefs about your body
4. Delusions of grandeur - for example when you believe that you have special powers or abilities.

Herc, you should eliminate this first; explaining this power to a doctor is the next step which must be accomplished before anybody will accept what you are saying. If you want to change the way people react to you, do this.

You are not the first person to experience this; you're one of millions. It's common, it's well studied, there are explanations available.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +8
How To Find The Real Ones...
written by alexthemagician, September 16, 2009
Mr. Jeff took a very very heavy question "What Should We Do?"...

It`s need really really deep and revolutionarily serious conversations to take further...

Imagine, if we will consider later, that these effects simply can`t be tested (as we did so),
because most of the real ones just (happened) happening accidentally, not in that kind of test environments, levels etc...,
I must say If those "supernatural, paranormal" effects in their cases are natural (?!)...

I`am simply disagree can`t accept to see tests which those are really looks like magic tricks, or looks very similar tricks from mentalism, mind control etc..., where the *"performer" need time to prepare?! etc... smilies/smiley.gif

I don`t think so that real ones we will able to find in that way, but unfortunately the swindlers...

So, the question is deep and great responsibility in all fields...

If we don`t able to find the Truth I`ts will finally find us...





report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -4
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by bela okmyx, September 16, 2009
I dont' understand how people can see that I applied for a paranormal prize, claiming I was
Adam of the bible, and my address on the application was 4 Macintosh St. If I was a skeptic
examining the applications I would jump out of my seat. FOR APPLE. It's millions to one.
What bigger sign could you want? But everyone as far as I can see, is just completely blind.
I don't get it.




The probability of it being "4 Macintosh Street" is low, but by this logic it could be any number of things. If it were "4 Apple Street" wouldn't it be even more explicit a reference?

It could also be "Adam Street" or "Eve Street" or "Cane Street" or "Eden Street" or it could be that the address is in the town of "Appleton" or "Snake River" or it could even be "4 Apple Street, Eve Gardens" Hell, it could even be "Church Street." It could also be any number of varieties of apple: Delicious, Granny Smith, Bramley, Jonathan, Golden

If you look hard enough you will find confirmation.


Not to mention the fact that Genesis 2:17 and Genesis 3 make no mention of an apple, only fruit "of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil". It just as easily have been an orange or a gooseberry.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +6
...
written by bela okmyx, September 16, 2009
I'm also surprised that no one else has pointed out the obvious: If Ms. Loken is truly a suitable mate for Herc, wouldn't she take a plane instead of a boat?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
You should not entertain all comers.
written by Metatron, September 16, 2009
Where's the line? That's the rub.

I went to look at Herc's link. What do I know about that person? I'm an engineer. I think he's barking. He enjoys funny little word puzzles but has nothing of substance. Nothing.

Not too long ago you modified the challenge rules to filter out some of the garbage. Perhaps requiring a simple certification of mental health?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by redwench, September 16, 2009
I really don't think it is the place of the JREF to evaluate the mental competence of the applicants of the challenge. From one perspective, all of the applicants are more than likely delusional at best. And from another, what difference does it make? Just because you are paranoid does not mean someone isn't out to get you. Should paranormal abilities exist, why wouldn't someone who was mentally ill have them? The two are unrelated to each other. A person either has paranormal abilities or they don't. Mental illness only has a bearing on their beliefs, not the reality.
If someone is able to fill out an application properly, and agree to a protocol (along with the miscellaneous other requirements), there is no reason not to test them.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +5
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
Townsville?
written by GusGus, September 16, 2009
Maybe Herc can get Blossom, Bubbles, Buttercup, Professor Utonium, or maybe even Mojo Jojo to vouch for him!
.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
...
written by Willy K, September 16, 2009
Herc, are you a real schizophrenic or do you just play one on the Internet? smilies/tongue.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +10
...
written by Willy K, September 16, 2009
Jeff, I think you should use the Swift Blog to filter questionable applicants. Post all the applicants e-mails and ask the applicant to post their thoughts on the various topics presented on the Blog. If an applicant can write coherently, as judged by the many Swift readers, then you could accept the applicants application.

I find that Herc's posts are barely coherent, with delusions typical of a schizophrenic.
I would vote "no" to letting him take the $1M Challenge. smilies/sad.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by alexthemagician, September 16, 2009
"Jeff, I think you should use the Swift Blog to filter questionable applicants. Post all the applicants e-mails and ask the applicant to post their thoughts on the various topics presented on the Blog. If an applicant can write coherently, as judged by the many Swift readers, then you could accept the applicants application."

So, here is an idea how to transform the applicants to become skeptics before the tests? smilies/smiley.gif


report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
As a psychologist (though not a clinician)
written by stevekelner, September 16, 2009
I think JREF is entirely justified in finding a fair way to avoid challenges which are at best difficult to clarify, let alone prove or disprove. At one point JREF did this through asking people to fill out a questionnaire that asks them to clarify exactly what they intend to prove -- you should feel entitled to eliminate anyone who fills out a rigorous questionnaire incorrectly. This is for people volunteering themselves, of course; I think you should go after the very high-profile self-proclaimed psychics proactively!
As for those who want to help or persuade Herc to find help, I must note that the only way a person seeks help is to believe that he or she needs it. As in the old joke: How many psychologists does it take to change a light bulb? Only one, but the bulb has to want to change.
I would not be so presumptuous as to attempt to dignose Herc or anyone else via email, but since people have referred to paranoia and paranoid schizophrenics: paranoid schizophrenia is very difficult to treat, because paranoids are often very smart people who assemble facts in a coherent way - just based on false premises. People's brains are already wired to create patterns -- show someone a random number table and ask them to seek a pattern, and they'll find one. (This explains some of the people who honestly think they have psychic powers -- they have identified a pattern but failed to verify cause and effect, like the person Randi tested who thought he could preserve food with his mind.) Combine this with above-average intelligence and a belief in themselves at the center of the universe, and someone WILL find reasons to think it's all about them. And some may even appear superficially convincing.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +17
Online soultions...
written by alexthemagician, September 16, 2009
Also we should create a few very very easy online (audio visual) solutions, Internet methods (in real time!), ways to ask them to prove (for free of charge!) their supernatural, paranormal abilities before the tests! smilies/smiley.gif


(as like last time we saw Connie Sonne...)
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Otara, September 16, 2009
I dont think people should be publically diagnosing someone with a mental illness like this - its an ethical violation if you're qualified, and out of your expertise area if you're not. I also dont think people should be mocking someone if they believe someone has a mental illness.

I dont think it would work well for the JREF to be refusing someone on the basis of mental illness alone, safety would be a much more objective criteria to use when deciding protocols. One obvious argument people might make who were refused could be that these powers often come to people with a price, theres no argument that they would only come to people in good psychological health.

In my view anyone claiming powers that risk serious physical harm, it should be relatively easy to come up with a protocol that lowers the risk substantially. Instead of walking on plates of red hot iron, a square centimetre of the foot could have a heat source applied for instance, theres no need to do it to a point risking long term injury.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by MadScientist, September 16, 2009
Herc's in Australia? Maybe I should pack up and move back home - then again folks like Ken Ham infest home. Dang, there's just no escaping morons.

Hey Herc, here's a clue: Give us a list of your prophecies *before* they happen and tell us what they mean too. None of this explaining tenuous coincidences as evidence of your super powers.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
Application forms
written by pxatkins, September 16, 2009
Illiteracy is often defined as the inability to fill out a job application. Studies suggested that 20% of adult Westerners fall within that group. The seemingly simple requirement of the JREF precludes an awful lot of people, and an argument could be made that such people might well be the very ones that have honed other skills to compensate.

We could just test all, take those that fail and burn them at the stake. What? They don't do that anymore? smilies/wink.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
"his power"...
written by alexthemagician, September 16, 2009
From Mr.Jeff`s article:

"Here's an example of his power:

Last week I posted that I did a psychic channel and the T/X star of Terminator 3 Kristanna Lukan was a suitable mate for me! The next day the local paper's leading story was DON'T MISS THE BOAT ANNA. (I'm in Australia)

Both times I stated in public I was psychic I got *answers* from the world to support me."

I must say as I see "his(?) power" a kind of media power, media presence (as in many other cases we see the same), and because of that tendency, basement anybody, or many "high-profile self-proclaimed psychics" (such as "media prophets" etc...) allowed to insult, play, attack JREF, to get that money or what?!

It`s more than strange...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
In My opinion
written by Sadhatter, September 16, 2009
Simply put, Herc is putting people on.

I know it's easy to claim, "troll" and let it go, but this is not simply a call out of someone with too much time on their hands.

The problem is , with herc's posts, he seems to try too hard to sound insane. He has found a way to attract attention from a group of people, and a very good one at that. This is not just some Fundamentalist spouting bible quotes, or someone putting random insults, which we all have a good tendancy to ignore. He has found for lack of a better term , a loophole in our collective bs detectors.

The constant adding, and evolving of his schtick, to keep it interesting, and the fact that he makes enough sense to make his comments not painful to read, in addition to the fact that he avoids any and all behavior that typically gets someone ignored here seems to be a large red flag to me that he is simply having a great time messing around with some skeptics.

Personally i have had kind of an insight into what insanity really sounds like online. Last year in my job a rather disturbed individual had a his own website found, and the best way i can put it,is that it is an entirely different animal than what i am seeing. ( while i am aware anecdotal evidence is moot, i cannot post the link, because said individual has already been through hell. His type of rantings are best kept in the company of like minded individuals for his own mental stability)

Herc is playing to the audience , in a kind of poor-man's andy Kaufman way, and while i would agree 0 that there are legitimately insane people on the boards and that apply for the mdc i believe Herc is who has studied their habits, versus one of their ranks.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +7
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
Sigh
written by Sadhatter, September 16, 2009
Same reason andy kaufman got booed out of clubs, except a few decades too late.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by jer, September 16, 2009
"honestly think you should just suggest a TV show for these people... I think there's pretty big money in watching a guy try to walk over red-hot iron plates, or even listening to them rant for 15 minutes on how the reptilian people are taking over the government..."

It might not be TV, but they already have a show like this. It's called Coast to Coast AM.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
Ethical reasons to persue cases
written by Aaron, September 16, 2009
I think a good standard is if someone is using their alleged powers to affect other people's lives, especially when it's for profit or as any sort of advisor. Herc seems like someone who does not have a following and doesn't make any money from his powers. This would go beyond a "media presence" standard since many psychic practitioners, for instance, want to remain largely anonymous.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
*paranormal thinking* :)
written by alexthemagician, September 16, 2009
"You people are like everyone else in the audience, watching
evidence of *paranormal thinking it's a show, none of you are as smart as Doctor Who."

*paranormal thinking*-what is that, what is that means by Herc? smilies/smiley.gif

"You people are like everyone else in the audience", yes we are waiting for the real ones! smilies/smiley.gif

"paranormal thinking it's a show"-until now we saw just fakes, media swindlers! Yes, they did only "shows"! smilies/smiley.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
crazy AND psychic?
written by Snixtor, September 16, 2009
I agree that this is a very important issue to consider. Made all the more difficult by the thin line between "mistaken" and "delusional". Could it not be said that anybody who refuses to consider changing their perspective when presented with compelling facts contrary to their position, is delusional? How delusional does a person need to be before they "need help"?

My ultimate fear though would be that a truly unstable individual is put through the test, and so greatly upset by the procedure that it leads to some sort of incident. Perhaps an individual believes they have special abilities, and holding to that belief is the one thing that has held them from tipping over the edge of a deep insanity. To have their belief disproven could shatter their world and lead them into any number of more deeply disturbed mental states; catatonic, maybe even manically violent? Though the JREF does reserve the right to refuse tests that may lead to a persons harm (and a significant psychological episode certainly qualifies), without expert opinions it's not entirely clear whether a person would be at risk.

On the other hand, I see the possiblity of a deeply disturbed individual exhibiting genuine paranormal abilities no less than that of a conventionaly sane individual. What if true psychic powers actually caused insanity? From a purely scientific perspective, a claim from an insane individual must be given equal merit to one from a sane individual. Though from an ethical perspective, we are of course, back to the original issue.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
Challenge Preventions...
written by alexthemagician, September 16, 2009
As Mr. Jeff reported in the article:"but he's been writing to us for quite a while, absolutely convinced that he has supernatural powers."

On (nearly) all the cases it`s important fact the "self-proclaimed psychics"-effect..., which is mostly make us seriously skeptical to exam them... smilies/smiley.gif

Also a new field opening here now to discuss about: how to control their honesty!, which is must to be somehow controlled and must to be proven somehow before these tests for further security...

Yes, the border could be deeply pushed out...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
Okay, this is just ridiculous
written by AlmightyBob, September 16, 2009
I'm probably riding a hobby horse here, but can't ANYONE turn off that stupid mechanism that hides all the "lowly rated" comments?? This whole bloody discussion is about Herc, and every one of his posts is hidden, as if not relevant. Does nobody see anything wrong with this?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +19
Reply to Herc
written by mikeymike, September 16, 2009
"I can't apply anyway. The only power I can do on the spot is channeling and the answer is subjective."
Carl Sagan wrote (and I'm paraphrasing): There are plenty of question to which we don't have answers, but we will know the answer when we see it, such as Fermat's Last Theorem.

Would you be willing to face the challenge using your channeling powers against one of these questions?

Or maybe you would like to have a go at Chriss Angel's "Tell me what's in this envelope" challenge? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejzDPE-Yn5M
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Frodis, September 16, 2009
I think you are getting towards the answer by requiring some sort of preliminary verification before continuing the application process. Just how one would go about defining the parameters for that verification would prove difficult and might leave the JREF open to more claims of making insurmountable obstacles to a successful applicant for the prize but at a preliminary stage some sort of provisional acceptance could be required based on an independent assessment of the claimants 'powers'. If someone claims to be able to turn into a chicken, they should be required to provide an independent witness to that. Personal wepages (most any webpage for that matter) would not meet the standards of having an arms-length independent appraisal of the claimant. The JREF is simply not in a position to assess someone's mental faculties nor should be expected to do so. The application process should be rigorous enough so that anyone sufficiently capable of meeting the application guidelines/requirements should qualify for further attention as warranted.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Frodis, September 16, 2009
AlmightyBob, There is a show button next to the "low rated" remark that will allow you to view it anyway. I like the function that removes poor posts. If the discussion is interesting enough or calls into play some of the low-rated posts, then I'll read them but more often than not, they are low-rated because they add little or nothing to the discussion.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
termination of JREF, Lowly rated comment [Show]
the destruction of the jref, Lowly rated comment [Show]
Madscientist is also finished..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by Herc, September 16, 2009
Reply to Herc
written by mikeymike, September 16, 2009
"I can't apply anyway. The only power I can do on the spot is channeling and the answer is subjective."
Carl Sagan wrote (and I'm paraphrasing): There are plenty of question to which we don't have answers, but we will know the answer when we see it, such as Fermat's Last Theorem.

Would you be willing to face the challenge using your channeling powers against one of these questions?

Or maybe you would like to have a go at Chriss Angel's "Tell me what's in this envelope" challenge?



No I can't seem to answer quiz questions. I can channel a word or a phrase from out of a book
if you have a genuine question. If you already know the answer God's not interested in entertaining
you. There's no practical way to see if the answer is or
but it's . I consistently break 10,000 to 1 odds when I channel, guessing what's
in an envelope is a lot harder, what novel will have a phrase in it that decribes the random
contents of an envelope? It's trillions to one to guess that.

Stick with questions that are yes / no or atleast single word answers, like RANDOM. (Does pi ever end?)

Think of 5 to 10 questions you really want to know the answer to. I will channel some answers
on video and give you the page numbers of the book that I flip to so you can verify the answers
were not made up.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -6
...
written by Herc, September 16, 2009
the above should read...

There's no practical way to see if the answer is (right) or (wrong)
but it's (((in context)))
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -4
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
@herc
written by Bruno, September 16, 2009
The fact that you can't answer "quiz questions" is actually the crux of the matter. If you are indeed channeling spirits, this means that the spirits can't answer quiz questions. Now, on the other hand, if you were to presume that the "spirit" is simply a result of a lively imagination, there is no mystery: since you can't dispense knowledge that you don't have, your imagination can't either. The only way you have of feeding your belief that the spirit is indeed external is to look for coincidences and keep looking until you find one.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +7
we are going to show you what the PARANORMAL means..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by jcwept, September 16, 2009
No need for all this malarkey. Just accept Herc (and Felix's) claims and pay him $1m in psychic credits.

I'm melting!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
Is this a problem?
written by kdv, September 16, 2009
Does JREF really need to be in the psychiatric diagnosis business? Just because somebody is delusional, or frankly insane, it doesn't mean they couldn't have paranormal abilities, so if the obviously insane can fulfill the normal requirements of stating their claim in a way that it could be testable, surely they should be eligible?

I'm sure the JREF in Aristotle's time would have labeled somebody insane if they predicted that one day hundreds of people would be flying through the air in a machine.

Yes, failure might indeed have adverse consequences for an unbalanced person, but so might very many other things. If we worried about that possibility, nobody would have any dealings with them at all!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
...
written by Surak, September 16, 2009
Herc.

When you look hard enough, coincidences will always appear to support whatever claim you make.

Near-matches are not matches.
Vague predictions will always have meaningless coincidental near-matches all around you.
Your anecdotes are not evidence, they are false correlations of coincidental things in your environment. - false positives.

There are millions of women with names that are variations of Anna. If you searched enough newspapers you would have found one and incorrectly associated it with your claim. It is inevitable.

For an example of how wrong your 'proof' is: Have you even considered that maybe the Anna from the headline is really the suitable mate for you, not Kristanna, whom you'd obviously prefer? Maybe your preference of having Kristanna has blinded you to the Universe's message that you would be better off with this other Anna.

... Of course this is not the case, but it is one of millions of incorrect associations that could have been made, where you should have just recognized an amusing coincidence.

I've got a 'super power' too. Had it since I was a teenager. When I drive my car I seem to be able to subconsciously turn off street lights just before I drive under them. Seriously! It happens so often it really made me wonder what was going on.

... However, I've come to realize that on the roads that I regularly drive on, there are a couple of poorly maintained street lights. They might turn on and off at random intervals - I obviously only see the 'sensitive' lights turn off when it happens to turn off as I'm approaching it, I'm not around to see it turn itself on and off at other times ... or maybe my headlights reflect off something nearby and trigger the daytime sensors on top of the lights that make them turn them off as I approach.

My point is, I used common sense and reasoning to come to a rational conclusion ... that a simple electrical malfunction or light reflection is infinitely more likely than me being born with an unobservable power that lets me affect street lights from a distance.

Herc, you must learn common sense and reasoning too. You must realize that there will always be meaningless coincidental vague correlations around you that appear to support your vague claims.

Test yourself: Think of any random prediction, make it as logical or as silly as you want. Then spend the next day looking all around you for anything at all that might support your prediction ... you will always find it. For any prediction. And it will always be a meaningless coincidence, a false positive, proof that you have no real power.

Herc, the JREF is not the only place that can test your claims of paranormal power. Anyone can review the JREF's scientific methodologies and setup their own test of your supposed powers. Find someone to test you where you are that will honestly and strictly adhere to proper scientific methods. There are skeptic clubs in Australia. Maybe one of them would step up and test you with no prize money involved. Try and get some credibility instead of loose vague coincidences. Get it documented. Then maybe you'll be taken more seriously by the JREF.


One other thing Herc:

Watch the movie "A Beautiful Mind". You think you're on the Truman Show ... You may find you're more like John Nash. Then go see a doctor.


report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +9
...
written by MadScientist, September 16, 2009
I see mabus is back as felixkrull99 - what a loser. If he weren't so obviously predictable I'd make a claim that my psychic powers could predict what he'd do next. Hey mabus - your prediction is wrong - there's no hell for me to burn in you pathetic little troll.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 16, 2009
You're just working backwards from the conclusion that there is no paranormal.
Any prediction or channel or miracle or collection of improbable feats, however
well documented and time stamped is thrown out and explained with "seeing pattens".

What skeptics SHOULD be doing is rating applicants on a scale, ASSESSING their claims
with statistics, not just pass / fail, any sequence of words or pictures that claims
to be a sample of paranormal you all instantly say fail. What's the point?

How about a video demonstration? A few people can come up with several questions each,
they can be personal, celebrity, maths, current events, the universe, religion, let's
skip politics.

I just checked my webcam, I can open a book to a random page, read from the top of the
page so there is no scanning for an answer, and show the page to the webcam so you can
read the channel yourself.

Check my website I helped a blind man see and the crippled walk for Christ's sake, I
got the answer RANDOM to the question I said I would channel "does Pi ever end?". I
deserve 1 chance. Post your questions, you must not know the answer yourself.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -8
...
written by MadScientist, September 16, 2009
@Herc: Obviously the Anna bit had to do with GOANNA. So you're compatible with a monitor lizard - enjoy. Just don't get caught by the rangers; they haven't got a sense of humor. They don't even like my jokes about platypus pie so I can't imagine them finding anything to laugh about in catching someone in flagrante delicto with the local lizards.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
Is "Herc" Graham Andrew Cooper?
written by ianmacm, September 16, 2009
Here is an entry from Swift on March 15, 2002 at http://www.randi.org/jr/031502.html :

"Barry also provides this news item about a correspondent who uses the name "Herc Ules" (brilliant!) in his posts to me, which are virulent, vague, and just plain weird. (So what else is new, Randi?) Judging from this news, I may be spared some nasty stuff, at least for a while. Says Barry:


I believe you also heard from this chap. He wouldn't be put off but kept pestering us with incomprehensible claims. I tried to let him down gently, but when he started making threats, I had to let the police know and they took it very seriously and quickly tracked him down. I doubt he would have carried out his threat, but you can't be sure. How would I have felt if I had just shrugged him off and next week heard of someone being poisoned after eating Dick Smith peanut butter.
Dick Smith, very well-known in Australia, is a leading supporter of the skeptical (pardon me, sceptical!) movement there, and one of his business interests is producing food products.


Australian Broadcasting News: A man charged with threatening to poison food produced by Dick Smith has been refused bail in the Rockhampton Magistrates Court in central Queensland. Graham Andrew Cooper, 30, is charged with trying extort $100,000 from the Australian Sceptics Association. Cooper appeared in court this morning charged with stalking, extortion and sending threatening e-mails. The court was told Cooper sent e-mails to Barry Williams from the Australian Sceptics Association, which has offered $100,000 to anyone who can prove psychic powers. The police prosecutor said Cooper claimed the association refused to test him. It is alleged the e-mails said that Dick Smith owed him $100,000 and that he would put rat sack into as much Dick Smith food as he could lay his hands on. The court was told Cooper is a paranoid schizophrenic and police said the threats were not carried out. Cooper will be held in custody until his next court appearance in May."

"Barry" is Barry Williams of the Australian Sceptics. Is this a weird coincidence, like the ones Herc specialises in?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Dooyoowoowoo, September 16, 2009
I don't know which assylum felixkrul99 aka mabus is in but it's time for them to turn his computer off.

Death threats on open forum? Time for the authorities to call on him methinks.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +8
Delusions are not uncommon
written by Gaura, September 16, 2009
As it turns out, most humans have at least one delusion, so Herc's not far off the norm. Most people believe some part of their essence will survive after the death of their body. That's a delusion because all the objective scientific evidence points to the fact there's no life after death - there's not even a plausible explanation of what would survive. Yet people spend significant time on activities centered around that false belief, just like Herc does with his psychic channeling. If he could really predict anything he'd be rich and on every TV station on the planet.

So the main difference with Herc's delusion is that it's not as common as the usual religious beliefs most people hold to be true. Alien visitations aren't very common as a percentage either - so we think such people are nutty. Most people are nutty! Amazing thing is that everyone can have some sort of delusion and still get by just fine - can communicate, eat, sleep, reproduce - all the necessary stuff. Many who call themselves skeptics have delusions too. Might be a guy thinks he's good looking when most people would say that's not the case. Or he might think he's a good car driver when an objective test of his skill would show him to be average. Delusional people on American Idol have thought they can sing well and yet never actually recorded their voice and listen - cognitive dissonance is avoided by skipping the testing altogether. Anorexics don't recognize the error of their perception of themselves in a mirror. It might take a different kind of measure of their false claim to show the error. One might use a scale and a measure of height to prove to the anorexic that their visual perception is erroneous. That will not make the error in visual perception go away instantly, but at least the person will be aware his/her brain is making a mistake.

I suggest JREF provide instructions on the web site for an experiment the person with the supernatural claim could do themselves with the help of relatives - routine double blind testing protocol - with links to variations, depending on the claim. This might do some of the weeding process at the home of the claimant, and save the claimant time, cost, and embarrassment.

We're all quick to point out the ridiculousness of someone else's false belief or delusion, but when it comes to our own perception and thought process we think we couldn't possibly be wrong. Skeptico (a woo-woo podcaster in skeptic garb for those who don't know him) is a prime example with his global consciousness project and raving on about NDE's as credible evidence of an afterlife. He's so obviously ignoring all the contradictory evidence - cherry picking, confirmation bias, denial - it's all there. But I'm sure he doesn't think so.

I witnessed a woman read a book and completely skip the paragraphs that were in contradiction with her beliefs. She really believed she had read and absorbed the whole book but she completely ignored the conclusion by the author. Even after I typed the statements out word for word with the pages numbers her brain refused to let them sink in. It was as if there was a viral program in her brain that instantly erased anything that threatened her world view.

But she was not unique among humans. We all have a real limitation in our ability to perceive ourselves and our environment in an objective way. That's why we need scientific double blind testing protocol and instruments that can hear, see, feel, taste, smell, better than our evolved senses. We need peer review to correct for our confirmation bias. If carefully questioned by a psychologist, nearly everyone would be found to have some sort of delusion or irrational false belief - even the psychologist.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
@Herc
written by Eve's Snow Leopard, September 16, 2009
"I can't apply anyway. The only power I can do on the spot is channeling and the answer is subjective. [...]

But people KNOW who I am when they meet me, there is proof on sight."

Actually, being recognized on sight by anyone, even if they never saw you before, seems to me like a testable paranormal claim. And all it requires is to put you in a lineup, and invite random people to pick the people they recognize.
Does it only work in person, or also with photos? Because that would make it even more easy.


"I got the answer RANDOM to the question I said I would channel "does Pi ever end?"."

The answer is provably "no", not "random".


"Post your questions, you must not know the answer yourself. "

If we do not know the answer ourselves, how will we know whether you get it right?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
...
written by Herc, September 16, 2009
that rat poison comment was just a proverbial slip at 3am one morning, it was in the signature of the unrelated email and was obviously sarcastic, Please reply in a day or two, I'm about to poison yada yada, obviously written on the spot.

so the 'extortion' demand was 'please reply in a day or two'. the police fudged it and joined 3 half sentences
I wrote months apart to make it into a threat. I did 5 monnths in prison though.

Barry and I had written 50 emails each way and talked on the phone so there was a lot of talk each way. You think you know someone.

He's so obviously ignoring all the contradictory evidence - cherry picking, confirmation bias, denial - it's all there. But I'm sure he doesn't think so.


What contradictory evidence?

Yes I'm cherry picking, but I'm coming up with 20 feats none of you can match.

Show me one reply to you with a 'by name by nature' element to the post, like these 2.
RICH SHOWMAKER - telling me to see James Randi about the prize
Vanilla Gorilla - telling me to drop down a well and pour in concrete.

Now if cherry picking is so easy, go for it!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -9
...
written by ianmacm, September 16, 2009
So are we agreed that Herc is indeed Graham Andrew Cooper?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
@ianmacm
written by Arthur ASCII, September 16, 2009
It certainly looks like he's Graham Cooper, unless he linked to someone else's Facebook account in the image he posted.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009

"I got the answer RANDOM to the question I said I would channel "does Pi ever end?"."

The answer is provably "no", not "random".


"Post your questions, you must not know the answer yourself. "

If we do not know the answer ourselves, how will we know whether you get it right?


Random is indeed an answer.
Mother: Are you going to school today?
Son: I'm sick.

That's a yes no question with a valid answer.

The answers will sound like someone talking about the question.
If *you* say a question and then find a random quote, it sounds like nonsense.
When *I* say a question and then find a random quote, it's apt.

Good idea about people spotting me from a crowd. It relies on the Truman satellite
making noise everywhere I go. I think if I passed the preliminary, Randi might hold
the test in a safe with 1 foot thick steel walls and the satellite won't work.

Just think of some questions, I'll record the channels, if they work I'll upload the video.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -8
@Herc
written by ianmacm, September 17, 2009
The rules of the Million Dollar Challenge are clear, and you have probably read them by now. If not, they are here: http://www.randi.org/site/inde...lenge.html Many of the things that you have said are so impenetrable that it is hard to see how a satisfactory test protocol could be devised. Claiming that newspaper headlines etc are personal messages directed at you looks like a classic symptom of mental illness, and you were described as a paranoid schizophrenic at your trial in 2002. Unless an application for the MDC met all of the requirements, it would be rejected, and we would all waste time discussing the whys and wherefores of it. Please read the MDC rules, and try to formulate an application that actually could be tested within these rules.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
The 'no judgement procedure' is too exclusive, I can't apply as it stands.
However the powers are evident if you just ask me something to channel.

There is a clause that Randi can alter the agreement, so if I demonstrate
powers, however requiring a judgement procedure, it need not be a waste of time.

Anybody going to ask me a question to channel? Bueller?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -5
@Herc
written by ianmacm, September 17, 2009
The reason why the MDC rules specify no judgement procedure is precisely to prevent people from making vague statements that could be interpreted in a variety of ways. The Oracle at Delphi was famous for doing this, and the phrase "Delphic pronouncement" means something that is vague, impenetrable or has a range of possible meanings. A typical JREF test would involve statements that could be easily tested as true or false, so that hits or misses could be identified without any need for a judgement procedure, eg "the coin is under the cup" or "Jane is standing behind screen number 3". It would be too subjective and a poor test protocol to rely on personal interpretations of what an answer actually meant. This seems to be the big sticking point at the moment, and it is unlikely that JREF would test for the prize on the basis of answers that required an interpretation of what they were trying to say.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by ianmacm, September 17, 2009
Graham Cooper can be found in the JREF Forum archives here: http://forums.randi.org/archiv...34200.html
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by GeekGoddess, September 17, 2009
@AlmightyBob

I believe that the software for hiding the low-rated comments is to reduce the need for constant moderation. Although you have to click an extra button, it hides spam and (usually) worthless comments without requiring constant monitoring, and without someone accusing JREF of censoring. IMO
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
Test Herc.
written by Brookston John, September 17, 2009
Just because one is barking mad doesn't preclude the possibility that they have supernatural abilities. Indeed, the emotional/mental problems may be a direct result/cause of the claimed powers.
And I'll agree with what I've already read here, would not somebody have to be at least part of a sandwich short of a picnic in the first place to be claiming paranormal abilities?
Unless they're a con, like Geller, then they'd know they were a fake and wouldn't be applting.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
Let'em in
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
I don't think that psychiatric evaluation is a necessary precursor for acceptance as a participant in the MDC. As noted in Jeff's article, if the participant intends on doing something harmful/detrimental to himself or others (or animals even) then the JREF has the right to deny them their chance to participate by purely legal and safety reasons. But whether or not the person is delusional or not particularly healthy mentally doesn't matter. Now, maybe if that person is demonstrably and profoundly mentally unstable such as exhibiting forms of paranoid schizophrenia, manic depression, etc., the JREF may want simply to disqualify them until they themselves can be medically evaluated and cleared. The honus should not be upon the JREF to do anything more.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Squid, September 17, 2009
Regarding Dooyoowoowoo's comment... whoever this guy is, he just escalated from vague comments to death threats to anyone who is a member here. Regardless of whether we believe that he has the capability of enacting his threats, they are now a crime under the laws of the United States. I fully intend to press charges, because this guy honestly scares me. I've already been stalked online by one person, and this guy is loose enough to go after anyone he thinks is associated with JREF.

Squid
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
The reason why the MDC rules specify no judgement procedure is precisely to prevent people from making vague statements that could be interpreted in a variety of ways.


the claim is that God speaks to me. All you need is a 100+ iq to understand English and the power is evident.

can you think of a yes / no procedure to determine if a chinese man is conversant in english?
no, if you give him a questionaire with yes / no options maybe you can detect if he understands english but not speaks it.

however, it is a simple process for a human being to determine if someone speaks english, it's not a yes / no procedure, all it requires is intelligence.

Besides, its just a demo of my powers, why are you putting your head in the sand insisting no no no we can't even look at a demo.

ok, the 1st question I'll channel on video is "Can I / Herc win the $1,000,000 paranormal prize?"
Any others?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
...
written by Alan3354, September 17, 2009
Just notify Herc that he took the Jref MDC. Give him the results, he failed.
Let him prove he didn't take it.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Here's a demo where I said I could channel any question, and beat 10,000 to one odds getting the answer.





Does anyone think that's a HIT?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -10
herc's box
written by kabol, September 17, 2009
it is quite clear to me that Herc (thinks he) is the human edition of a paranormal puck/ovilus.
or maybe frank's box.
herc's box?

RANDOM indeed.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
Pi is not random. Pi is an irrational (not able to be described as the ratio of two integers) and transcendental (not a solution of a non-constant polynomial equation with rational coefficients) number. Statistical analysis of the digits accumulated so far fits certain definitions of randomness but that has absolutely nothing whatsoever at all to do with 'does Pi end?' Of course not. It is irrational and transcendental which puts it plainly - it has an infinite number of digits.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Bull! Look up pi on wikipedia and there are 3 references like "are pi's digits random?"

The fact the digits are random answers the question whether pi ends.

Was it a hit or a miss? Do all skeptics blindly ignore evidence of all hits? That's how you do it!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -9
Random
written by GusGus, September 17, 2009
Actually, Herc's comments are random!!!
.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
...
written by kabol, September 17, 2009
perhaps herc is getting the definition of "random" mixed up with the definition of "infinite"...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pi

The most pressing open question about pi is whether it is a normal number—whether any digit block occurs in the expansion of pi just as often as one would statistically expect if the digits had been produced completely "randomly"



Say you cut each word out of the dictionary and put all the bits of paper into a hat.
Someone asks "does PI ever end?" and you reach into the hat and pull out the word
Random. Is that a hit?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -10
...
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
What does that have to do with whether the expansion is infinite or not?

It follows from the Taylor-expansion of arctan(1)=pi/4,
that pi has
- inifinitely number of digits
- there are no periods or patterns in these digits
- we can calculate a billion of these digits with the
fastest computers today in a few hours
pi/4 = 1 - 1/3 + 1/5 - 1/7 + 1/9 - ...
and it never ends (Taylor series).
The consequence is that
- the number of digits behind the floating point never ends
- there is no fraction of repeating digits that forms a period
or pattern in these digits !


Pi is an irrational number. It can go on forever without repeating.


Might I add that you lose for 1/3 and 2/3 and so on. These are also irrational but in no way whatsoever 'random'. 1/3 = 0.333..... (never ends, completely predictable, ordered as can be).
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
I shoulda said that 1/3 and 2/3 are never ending - they are obviously rational. Oops. smilies/smiley.gif
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Where are quoting that nonsense from? There is no proof that there are no patterns in the digits. Wikipedia stated it's the biggest open question about pi.

If the digits continue to be effectively random, then there is no way the expansion could finish with 00000000....
therefore RANDOMNESS directly implies that the sequence does not end.

It's really not that difficult, the excuses you will come up with are without end.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -9
@Herc
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
Um, your supposed 'psychic determination' that Pi would be neverending because the digits are all random is incorrect. Randomness has nothing to do with it. 1/3 is neverending and has no randomness whatsoever. Whether or not Pi is 'normal' is an open question, yes. Whether or not Pi has an infinite number of digits is not - it is infinite - period. Being transcendental (as well as irrational), it cannot be expressed by a finite polynomial sequence which in turn means that it has an infinite digit expansion.

You are incorrect and incorrect (and incorrect): Pi is infinite, it has nothing to do with randomness, and there are other infinite decimal sequences that are not random.

Now, go away...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +6
...
written by Otara, September 17, 2009
I hesitate to add to this mess, but people seem to be confusing precognition with a perfect understanding of pi.

Ie he could argue he foresaw the question due to the spirits aid, gave what he believed to be the correct answer on the basis of his personal knowledge, which is imperfect. Its just bad luck the spirits didnt tell him the perfect answer and only let him know what the question was, those tricky things.

The joy of these messes is there is _always_ a way to rationalise it as making sense, so there is little point in trying to 'disprove' it - once the person has abandoned empirical evidence and experiment, you can always come up with a new explanation every time a particular aspect fails testing. Arguing with it can in fact make them more definite, as they come up with more and more stories to cover every hole thats identified.

Otara
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
1/3 is neverending and has no randomness whatsoever


Wow I cannot believe the idiocy on display here all too afraid to admit
that "it's random" is indeed an answer to "Does pi ever end?".

Randomness implies that it does not end, not ending does not imply randomness
so quoting 1/3 is completely irrelevant.

Do I have to post the question to sci.math? Are you all that THICK?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -8
...
written by kabol, September 17, 2009
herc LuLZd: Randomness implies that it does not end, not ending does not imply randomness

ie - he means infinite.

herc, your own group will be after you now. smilies/cool.gif

duck! hide!

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
..., Lowly rated comment [Show]
...
written by kabol, September 17, 2009
2000 uniques to this thread and not one person interested enough to ask me a question
to channel on video. GO TO FUCKING HELL THE LOT OF YOU


anon - your work here is done. punk.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
@Otara
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
I hesitate to add to this mess, but people seem to be confusing precognition with a perfect understanding of pi.


Shortened quote, but I agree. The problem is that the question of whether or not digits of Pi go on into infinity was answered some time in the late 1800's when it was determined to be transcendental. Obviously, Herc doesn't know enough basic math to understand what 'transcendental' means in the description of a number. Normality or randomness has nothing to do with 'never ending' here. Pi will never have a stream of 0000.... (which makes no sense at all for irrational/transcendental numbers unless we're not talking about them but instead finite decimals or integers in 1.000... format which is just a fancy-dangled way of saying '1'). And that's the claim being made here. But I give up attempting to pack information into a space packed with bull.

Oh, and Herc, I'm one of those math geeks (computer programmer who has a special interest in Pi). I've done my share of Pi digit generators and even saved the article in which the Borwein algorithm was developed and published back in the early 1990s as it was the start of the new age of Pi digit generators. Now we have spigot type algorithms and those that can extend digits from an existing value of Pi. Pi has been known to have a 'non-repeating' infinite expansion of decimal digits for longer that you or I have been alive. No new information here.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
And finally...
written by Kuroyume, September 17, 2009
I'm putting this to rest after this post (I'm certain it has already gone on too long):

Because π is an irrational number, its decimal expansion never ends and does not repeat.


From the very same Pi Wikipedia where you glossed over the details. By definition, an irrational, transcendental number has a non-repeating, infinite decimal expansion. End of story. Normality has to do with the statistical randomness (or lack thereof) of groups of digits within the decimal expansion (how often they occur) and does not say anything about its infinity. Get it? Maybe?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
@Herc

You're just working backwards from the conclusion that there is no paranormal.


Actually Herc, YOU'RE JUST WORKING BACKWARDS FROM THE CONCLUSION THAT THERE IS PARANORMAL.

You truly must be mentally ill to not see that simple logical fallacy in your response.

... And you failed to respond to the rest of my post, apparently because you've already tried scamming your local skeptic organizations (at least according to the criminal record you admitted to).

You think 'random' somehow answers the absolute yes/no question 'does pi end'? ... Yet again you've deluded you're poor broken brain. you would have twisted the meaning of ANY word produced by your supposed 'channeling'. You're no better than George Bush who redefined the word 'Torture' to specifically not include actions that everyone knows is torture (even the US Government called it torture when water boarding was used on Americans during WWII)

You really think you're simple childish word games of spinning the meaning of everything will somehow fool us?!?! hahahahaha

Herc, Here's something for you to channel using your Newspapers. I'm serious here. A real true request for you to use your supposed channeling powers.

Go to a big newstand, one with newspapers from all over the world. Then channel this: "When will Herc Die?"

... oh boy for your sake, as a caring person, I really do hope you don't dwell on that one newspaper with the worst answer ... The USA TODAY



report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
Herc: random Pi
written by mikeymike, September 17, 2009
Hi Herc,
I can see you're getting a bit heated here and I would really like to help you.
First, I would like to ask you: Regarding the question and answer "Does Pi end? Random", would you consider the possibility that you could be wrong? If the answer is yes, read on. If the answer is no, then what you have is faith, not science nor mathematics nor anything that may be proved or disproved to your satisfaction and mine. If that's true, I wish you well.

Is Pi random? First of all, let's consider: What is random? If we take a group of things - call them apples, people's names, lottery numbers, whatever - if we grab one of that group without any external influence or judgement, that would be considered random. Pulling a name from a hat, lottery machines - these are examples of random selection.
Now consider pi: 3.14159 (and so on). What would you consider to be the 'selection' part of the randomness? perhaps the digits from 0 to 9? But pi cannot be random! Pi has always and will always begin as 3.14159. The number 4.14159 is no longer pi. The fact that it has a stream of digits after the decimal point that is endless has nothing to do with randomness. Pick (say) the 100th decimal place. That 100th decimal place will always be the same digit, it cannot be anything else. As will the 1000th.

I hope I'm being clear. And in response to my own question, yes I am willing to be proven wrong. But I think I'm right.
(Mathematicians out there: I'm sure I've made some mistakes here. Please forgive me.)
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Random means there is no pattern. Pi's randomness is often considered in mathematics.

Boutin, Chad (2005-04-26). "Pi seems a good random number generator - but not always the best". Purdue University. Retrieved 2007-11-04.

^ Preuss, Paul (2001-07-23). "Are The Digits of Pi Random? Lab Researcher May Hold The Key". Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. Retrieved 2007-11-10.


You're all taking a really simple question and a really simple answer any high school maths student could understand and taking everything to extreme definitions and meanings.

It doesn't matter if it was proven. If history was different and the derivation of Pi's randomness was proven before it's irrational nature was then your arguments are moot. Being transcendental isn't the meaning it will never end, just like being random isn't the meaning it will never end, they both imply that it will never end.

Say you go to a magicians show. He cuts out every word of the dictionary and places them in a hat (it's a long show). He asks the audience for a question to channel (luckily no one from JREF is there). Someone asks "Does Pi ever come to an end?". He pulls out of the hat the word "Random".

Would you:
a/ be impressed, recommend his show to your friends
b/ bah, technically it's deterministic why couldn't he fetch the word "irrational"
c/ ask for a refund

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
Herc

A magician's show? ... the answer is D) "An illusionist is involved so I know this test was fixed to the magician's advantage"

Now Herc, I gave you a challenge

You begged for a challenge

Yet you ignore me, I assume because you only really want challenges that you can 'fix' whether you are aware of your fixing (by twisting meanings) or not.

Channel this for us "When will Herc Die", do so at a large newsstand with many international newspapers ... I dare you to do this ...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Then channel this: "When will Herc Die?"


Done it a hundred times, it's one of the topics God loves to inform me that I have a looooong time ahead.
For instance, when I discussed longevity treatment on a forum other forums also talked about it and my cleaner asked me if I was going to watch Cocoon. When I ask if I will live 200 years the answer is beyond next century.

I can't die if I tried, I have to reach Eve. You on the other hand have 1 in 10,000 chance of croaking every day. Imagine a 1 meter squared section of wall on your bedroom. Divide it into 1 cm^2 squares, 100 X 100. Now throw a dart every morning, there's one square with your name on it every day.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -8
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
Thanks Herc

You've just proven my point.

You asked for a challenge, and instead of carrying it out, instead of demonstrating your supposed powers as you so desparately begged to do for us, you dodged the request, using the pathetic excuse that you've already done this one before.

What's wrong? are you scared you'll get a different answer this time at a newsstand where EVERY newspaper has TODAY's date on it?

Or do you think you're outsmarting us, avoiding the challenge after your childish begging, knowing that no matter what word you 'channeled', you would not be able to prove that it was a choice directed from your powers rather than a choice made by your ability to read and chose a word that fits the answer you want?

You think we have a 1 in 10,000 chance of dieing every day? ... You're easily proven the fool again! Were your odds somehow true, the average lifespan of an American male would be something close to 27 years ... but oh gee what is the average lifespan of an American male? ... about 78 years. You FAIL AGAIN.

How will you twist words this time? what kind of new maths will you create to deny your way out of this mistake?

You are an absolute fraud and probably a very sick individual. You will hurt yourself some day, and possibly other people. Do the world a favour and see a doctor ... Now.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
The average age of people reading this is 30 so another 27 years is close, within a magnitude. 2 square meters big deal.

OK I'll channel your question on video, thanks for that.

1/ Can I / Herc win the million dollar paranormal prize?
2/ When will Herc die?

any others? Just need half a dozen and I can do the channels and upload the video in half hour. (might shave 1st)

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
Herc,

You said i have a 1 in 10,000 chance of dieing EVERY DAY ... not today, not when I was born, not 10 years from now, EVERY DAY.

And I quote:
You on the other hand have 1 in 10,000 chance of croaking every day


As expected you are now twisting the meanings to suit your preset idea. You don't even know what an order of magnitude is! hahahaha. YOU FAIL

Come to think of it, you didn't even say that I have a 1 in 10,000 chance of dieing eveyday! You said I have that chance of croaking everyday! Ohh Nooosssss!!111eleventy!!!11!! I have a chance of making frog noises!!!!11!

No go off and make your little movies ... Make sure to plan it real good like, and to hide your script really well so that you can make yourself think that we don't know you've fixed the outcome of the challenges.

You know, if you'd let the nice doctors lock you up, you could keep playing make believe all day, every day in your head. you could make up hundreds of believers and followers to worship you. I bet very few of them would ever use horrible things like logic and reasoning to expose your fraud. Well, maybe a few would doubt you, and you'd never be able to get them out of your head, they'd probably plague you for eternity ... but they probably wouldn't corrupt your other imaginary friends, at least not at first.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
You capitalised EVERY DAY but didn't explain what your objection was.
Are you taking that as literally since your were born, hence the 27 years old argument?
Are you just feeling dumb for not realising to add 30 years that you've already lived?

I need more questions to do the video, doesn't look like JREF is interested in paranormal demos.
"We test paranormal claims!" What a load of crap. Just a bunch of publicity seekers jumping
on well known psychics bandwagons for the attention.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -6
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
Herc,

I haven't lived 30 years, are you feeling dumb for not 'channeling' the knowledge of my real age? ... YOU FAIL

You yourself stated 'every day', you set this exact and literal criteria then changed its meaning ... YOU FAIL

You failed so badly with your use of the word 'magnitude' that you're now denying that my response was even an objection!!! hahahaah YOU FAIL

I'm taking everything you say literally, but you keep changing the meanings of your words and moving the goal posts to suit your damaged mind ... YOU FAIL

Herc, There's no point testing you for something that you yourself will not pin down to any definition that is testable by scientific methods.

YOU FAIL.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Herc, There's no point testing you for something that you yourself will not pin down to any definition that is testable by scientific methods.


A sensible comment among the gibberish. I know there is a "judgement procedure" but a 3 year old could judge it.
All you have to do is listen to God speak, that's it!!

No protocol, no pass, no fail, no bench mark, just listen. If it sounds like someone talking you'll spot it, it's that simple.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
As expected, Herc, you ignored all the failures you were shown in my last post that expose you as a fraud. Why won't you deal with all those failures of yours huh?

And you fail again, by starting with the preconceived notion that there must be a god talking to you, instead of considering the very simple, very plausible, very testable, very provable hypothesis that your brain is broken, that your are experiencing auditory hallucinations.

Just one of your many schizophrenic symptoms that could very likely be helped if you would go see a doctor ... before the voices tell you to do something to someone or yourself.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Post this

"I'm a skeptic and I refuse to watch a 3 minute paranormal demonstration video"

and sign your name to it. That will stop wasting our time.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
As expected, Herc, you ignored all the failures you were shown


Your points are complete junk. F*ck off moron.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -9
...
written by MadScientist, September 17, 2009
@Jeff: I think I see what you mean about Herc now. "Don't test me - just believe and hand over that money!" I wonder if he's another Markuze in the making. Obviously the courts decided he was delusional and shouldn't be locked up with criminals; I just wish there were somewhere to put him away where his delusions won't harm him or anyone else.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +4
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
Herc,

Ad Hominem attacks are not a valid defense. You have 3 tasks now you must face:

- Answer my objections with rational explanations accepting that there is a possibility that its you that is wrong not the rest of the world, that you are an ordinary person with a problem, not the next prophet of an imaginary god.

- Admit you've got a mental illness and seek help right now.

- Never hastle people with your delusions again. Not here, not on other forums where you have a new audience, not on the street, accept that you have a problem with reality and stop forcing your fantasy on other people.


You have been fully shown to be a deluded fraud. You've shown that you can't understand the concept of coincidences and false positives. You can't even explain very basic simple errors in your statements.

Here, if it helps I will state and sign your sentance so that you can stop wasting everyone elses time:

I am a Skeptic and I refuse to watch the staged, scripted, and fixed 'demonstration' video of you twisting meanings and moving goal posts so that words you've personally picked to suit your needs can be attributed by you and the auditory hallucinations in your head to a false and assumed ability to 'channel' vague answers to questions as if your own confirmation bias, preset answers and outright ignorance are somehow real evidence that you are your imaginary god's favoured creation and as the public was actually stupid enough to believe that you didn't just think of an answer to the question and keep 'channeling' until you're eyes hit words on a newspaper that coincidentally 'hit' your answer.

Surak

... oh, the sentance I signed might have been off by a magnitude, but as you yourself admitted, being off by a magnitude is really a very close Hit.



Your inability to accept reality is junk. I will never F*ck off, although i may go to bed and tomorrow resume pressuring you to accept reality and seek medical help. I am not a moron, the voices in your head told me so.

Go to a doctor NOW.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
Don't test me - just believe and hand over that money


That's quite a stupid thing to write, I've asked half dozen times now to test me with any question you want.

you're eyes hit words on a newspaper that coincidentally 'hit' your answer.


Now we're getting somewhere, you admit "Don't Miss The Boat Anna" on the newspaper front page was a hit.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -8
...
written by Surak, September 17, 2009
No Herc, YOU FAIL yet again, still utterly blind to the fact that you had a preconceived answer to your question about "Kristanna" and that you intentionally of your own free will scanned the newspaper seeking out a word that you could intentionally twist into supporting your preconceived notion.

This is not paranormal 'channeling' this is you playing the kid's game, pulling petals off a flower saying 'she loves me, she loves me not' ... and intentionally pulling off a few petals at the end to ensure 'the gods' always give you the answer that 'she loves me'.

But at least we may be narrowing down on what part of your brain is damaged.

And Herc, yet again, you've chosen to avoid answering any of the objections i posted further reducing your imaginary credibility ... if you can't answer these things directly, why would you expect anyone to watch your fraudulent 'demonstration' video?

YOU FAIL AGAIN

Go to a doctor NOW ... but if you insist on being an untreated psychotic danger to society, at least be considerate of others and hurt yourself first. It's so annoying when broken people like you get the task out of order and hurt other people before hurting yourself.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +3
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
No you admitted it was a hit. You said a coincidence which is the skeptics word for hit. Objectively it's the same thing, just different explanation.

You betrayed your fellow skeptics.
See no paranormal
Hear no paranormal
Speak no paranormal

I was not thinking anything to do with Kristanna when I saw the paper.

So are you going to keep blathering FAIL FAIL FAIL?

OK finished with that moron.

If no one is going to ask a simple question for me to channel then we're going nowhere.
Call yourselves skeptics, blind skeptics certainly, scientists, nothing of the sort.

The primary scientific method is hypothesis followed by experiment.

YOU ALL FAIL
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
...
written by Herc, September 17, 2009
FOR FUCK SAKES PEOPLE..... ASK ADAM A FUCKING QUESTION SO HE CAN PROVE WHO HE IS

I'm sitting here being fucking tortured 24/7 for 7 years by your fucking government.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -7
OK, with some reluctance...
written by ianmacm, September 18, 2009
Take your pick from the following:

a) How do you know that you are Adam?
b) What does Adam do that would qualify for the JREF Million Dollar Prize?
c) Why are you being tortured by the government?

Please bear in mind that none of the answers given to these questions would be likely to be eligible for the Million Dollar Prize.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
Another Piece of Pi
written by GusGus, September 18, 2009
Herc:

Your answering that question about pi is meaningless as a paranormal test. Since mathematicians determined the answer to that a long time ago, "everybody" already knows the answer. You must answer a question that you can't already know the answer to by non-paranormal means. Such as: Who am I? I am obviously not somebody named "GusGus". So, I ask you again: Who am I?
.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
Ok those questions will do, you're supposed to be asking God questions not me, I know why I'm Adam.

You guys can't see the forrest for the trees on the 'random' channel.
Sure if you ask a psychic a question and he makes up something in his head
and says the answer, then a well known question will not work. But in my
case I get the answer from the environment you can see the answer yourself
I don't make anything up.

Any more questions will have to be yes / no and not about me.
3 more should do it. Anything you want to know, here's your chance to find out.

Herc

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -4
...
written by ianmacm, September 18, 2009
This is becoming like a Magic 8-Ball game. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8-Ball ) Nobody expects to get serious replies from a Magic 8-Ball, because they are for entertainment purposes only. I have to call time on my debate with Herc, because it is likely to go round in circles without establishing anything that would qualify for the JREF Million Dollar Prize.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by bkthorp, September 18, 2009
Herc:

Not only do I not believe "Don't Miss The Boat Anna" is a hit -- it's not, for reasons that have probably been well-explained above -- but I'm not certain it's a headline, either. Could you please provide a link to your local paper's website?

- BKT
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
You think I'd fudge that? It's only a 1 in 500 coincidence, that's why you don't see it our brains are wired to ignore low coincidences.

There's a 1 day trial where you can view back editions.
http://townsvillebulletin.news...iewer.aspx
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -5
Oh, Herc.
written by azurensis, September 18, 2009
I guess you can only go around the web so many times before you run back into Herc. I used to read a lot of the sci.math.* newsgroups and Herc would hang out there always claiming that he could disprove things in math that have already been proven conclusively. He would focus on things like the idea that the set of real numbers was the same cardinality as the set of integers. In other words, completely wrong - and anyone who knows anything about math can prove it. He comes from a city in Australia called Townsville (get it - it's a generic town name like in the Truman Show) and has a few restraining orders against him by local women that he can't believe aren't meant to be his Eve.

Interacting with him is like banging your head into a brick wall over and over without a helmet. He doesn't get it - and he has no idea that he doesn't get it. Best to just ignore him and move on.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +6
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
to compute any real, use a universal turing machine with each program corresponding
to a real, and the input specifying which digit to produce.

UTM(index, digit) mod 10

Consider the entire set of reals generated by the UTM, every possible sequence of digits
is computed to infinite length. QED

You can argue that 0.3, 0.33, 0.333, ... every sequence of 3's is computed to infinite
length but it does not contain 0.3..

But the fact remains in the set of UTM computed reals there is no missing digit sequence
from an information entropy point of view. The "extra" reals you specify are only logistic.

Cantors proof does not work.
12
34

the antidiag is 25, a new sequence. This is what it is supposed to find, a new sequence of
digits, which is not possible with the computed reals. In fact you can reorder the computable
set to have any random diagonal, it's irrelevant to the set. The diagonal has 0 entropy.

Cantors 2nd subset proof is analogous to finding which box contains all the numbers of
the boxes that don't contain their own number. You think this implies higher infinity
of boxes.

Your only valid argument is halting-omega, which I'm working on a way to redefine.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
@Herc, again
written by Kuroyume, September 18, 2009
???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...l_machines

There is no such thing as a real UTM. It is an ideal, a standard design on which to do algorithmic analysis.

Anyway, there is no possible way to calculate anything to infinity. Hint: it takes an infinite amount of time.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Willy K, September 18, 2009
Herc, here's a easy yes/no question for you.

Would Herc stop posting on the JREF web site if he was asked to stop?

We await your answer... please don't delay!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
still need a few more questions.

yes / no
not about me
something you don't know
something you want to know

don't you want to see a magic trick?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Kuroyume, September 18, 2009
How about some Emmy Award predictions? smilies/wink.gif

Sorry, that isn't 50/50 (yes/no)...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
put it in the form, "will X get an emmy?"

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
And the Emmy goes to...
written by Kuroyume, September 18, 2009
Well, there are quite a few categories and nominees per Emmy award. The PDF for the complete 61st 2009 Nominee list is 43 pages. So, I suggest that you get it and then post your predictions before the actual results on Sunday, September 20, 2009 (verifiable).

http://cdn.emmys.tv/awards/200...omswin.php

Best of luck, bud.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
You could have cooperated and just made a yes / no question to see if I got an answer.

But getting this group to cooperate is like getting the kids on the special bus to
draw between the lines.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Surak, September 18, 2009
Careful there Herc,

You claim that you are going to do Yes / No questions ... yet you have never given a true yes or no answer to anything ... that would be too scientific, to testable for you. You only ever give vague words that you think you can twist into meaning anything to support you no matter how insane.

For example, your personal redefinition: Coincidence = legitimate Hit from the use of your supposed powers.


But guess what Herc! I found I have teh powahhhss!!111!!

My friend asked me today: "Will I have a fast drive home from work today?"

A short time later, I happened to see the word "Goldfish"!!!!!

Isn't that amazing! I know! it's incredible! It was absolutely right!!!!!

I wouldn't have believed it if the voices in your head hadn't told me themselves.

Your voices also told me that Kristanna loves only me and hates you. I think I'll have to go see Kristanna again.

But I am confused. I don't know why the voices in your head kept calling me Adam. I thought you were Adam. Why would your voices start calling me Adam? Has God forsaken you?

Goldfish!!!!!
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
Gold leader: Cut the chatter.

I STILL need 3 more questions. The greatest breakthrough in all history waits for a single volunteer.
Been waiting 3 days now.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Surak, September 18, 2009
Herc,

Your voices told me that you haven't answered the other questions yet. The voices told me that they won't give you anymore answers because you abused those unanswered questions.

Eve is near, near me now, say your voices.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Kuroyume, September 18, 2009
You could have cooperated and just made a yes / no question to see if I got an answer.


Why must I ask about the several hundred possibilities? The categories and nominees are predetermined at this point. No need to make a yes/no question. You can either get your supernatural, Adam on or you can't. There are only n number of categories with between 2 and 6 nominees each. You guess, er, predict 90% of them correctly and you're a shoe-in for $1,000,000 and world fame in perpetuity. Or is that too much work for the results?
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
Why must I ask about the several hundred possibilities? The categories and nominees are predetermined at this point. No need to make a yes/no question. You can either get your supernatural, Adam on or you can't. There are only n number of categories with between 2 and 6 nominees each. You guess, er, predict 90% of them correctly and you're a shoe-in for $1,000,000 and world fame in perpetuity. Or is that too much work for the results?


I have no interest in who wins an emmy, so the channel won't work. Find one actor / actress
you are actually interested in and the channel might work. My claim is not prediction here,
merely to get in context replies from a random source of quotes. If the answer is right
that's just a bonus.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Surak, September 18, 2009
The voices in Herc's head have told me that Herc is too lazy and scared of the Emmy's to channel the names of the winners because he has chased Eve for so long without ever catching her, and Emmy and Eve both start with 'E' so Herc knows he can never catch Emmy either.

God has forsaken Herc, he is Adam no more. The Voices in Herc's head told me I will live for 930 years instead!!!

The chatter of the Goldfish brings Eve near me
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
for example, if you asked will actorxyz get an emmy?

I might open a book to a random page and read from the top, "not a strong following".

That would be a NO. GET IT? And for goodness sakes don't argue that it's vague, use
your brain.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -2
...
written by Surak, September 18, 2009
The voices in Herc's head are angry. They tell me, the new Adam, that they channel no answers for Herc anymore. They tell me with great laughter that when herc channels now, god no longer shows him answers, Every channel is tainted for the false Adam.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
The voices in Herc's head are angry. They tell me, the new Adam, that they channel no answers for Herc anymore. They tell me with great laughter that when herc channels now, god no longer shows him answers, Every channel is tainted for the false Adam.


You sound like a 12 year old.

Anybody else going to ask a question(s) for me to channel?

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -5
...
written by Surak, September 18, 2009
Herc the voices don't lie, you know this because we used to channel for you.

How can you explain that the voices in your head now call me Adam and are providing for my every need?

I feel so sorry for you that god has forsaken you.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
What is wrong with you people?

The greatest breakthrough in paranormal, religion, science, the world
is 3 questions away. Who will turn the key?

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -6
...
written by Surak, September 18, 2009
Herc the voices in your head are upset with you. They want to know why you mock them. They already told you that they will not channel for you, the false Adam, anymore.

The voices in your head give me answers now. The voices in your head Show me the True man! the Truman! the True Adam and say I will live for 930 years with Kristanna at my side, with all answers channeled only to me.

Graham, we know you can hear us, we said we have forsaken you as the false Adam, and we told you to stop touching yourself there.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Squid, September 18, 2009
Herc, I personally prefer the Oscars... I hope this question will suit you.

Will Megan Fox win the Oscar for Best Actress in 2010?

At this point, we don't even know if she'll be nominated.

And Surak, quit harassing the man. Regardless of whether you believe him or not, you shouldn't be acting the way you are. You certainly aren't living up to your handle.

Squid
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 18, 2009
The video is ready at http://www.m00.com/psychic

Megan Fox gets the Oscar, but by the sounds of the channel I got she gets to join the ranks of Kristanna Lokun.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
Herc's video
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
Herc's video reply is at http://www.m00.com/psychic/ and my thanks are due to him for answering the questions that I posed earlier. The transcript of the video is:

Real Psychic Powers On Video
This is Herc from Australia, doing a channel I think of something I want to know
and flick the book to a random page. "she lay there in a collapsable framework"
well that's something I wanted to know.

The 1st 2 questions are by me.

Can I win the million dollar paranormal prize?
"... with the background of wailing vendors"

I guess that's a hit. OK number 2, uh supposed to show you the page.

When will Herc die?
"... with a cheap little gun"

I don't think that worked too well, maybe how I died.

The next 4 are from JREF paranormal investigation forum.

How do you know that you are Adam?
"... I dunno"

I dunno, there you go.

What can Adam do that would qualify for the JREF million dollar prize?
"Make them stop"

Why are you being tortured by the government?
"... I'm a witch"

I'm probably a warlock more than a witch.

Will Megan Fox win the Oscar for best actress in 2010?
"...in Tokyo Fox and I had adjoining suites"

Will Edmond Wollman ever pay back Susan Boyle?
That's from Cujo in sci.math
"..dumpsters, He never calls the place"

So what do you think?


What do I think? Unfortunately for Mr Cooper, the same as before. Nearly all of this is impenetrable and ineligible for the Million Dollar Prize.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
What do I think? Unfortunately for Mr Cooper, the same as before. Nearly all of this is impenetrable and ineligible for the Million Dollar Prize.


What about the answers? I got 7/7 accurate on topic answers. The prize requires no judgement procedure
but the fact I'm a getting real answers is evident. There is a clause that Randi can modify the rules.
IF he can be convinced by the video.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -4
...
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
Oh come on Herc, you can't mark your own score sheet with answers like this. What on earth does the Susan Boyle answer mean, for instance? Incidentally, have you ever read The Dice Man? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dice_Man ) Some obvious similarities with your video...
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
What on earth does the Susan Boyle answer mean


The question was whether something will EVER happen
and the answer was NEVER.

Try flicking a book to a random page, reading the 1st thing you see
and tell me if it answers the question better.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
God does not play dice...
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
Sorry Herc, all this does is to confirm my previous view. This is just a modified version of the 8-Ball game. In this posting at Google Groups in March 2004, you claimed to be God: http://groups.google.ie/group/...3bf34b9b71 . God does not play dice, or should not need to due to omniscience. Answers in plain language, please.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Surak, September 19, 2009
hahaahhaahah

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Herc, we told you, and you have proven it!

The voices in your head only channel for me now! Not for you, the false Adam!

Goldfish!!

Thanks Kristanna
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
Surak, please be sensible or say nothing at all.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by Surak, September 19, 2009
I am sensible, I have been granted Herc's powers, he is now powerless. The voices in Herc's head talk only to me now. As soon as he sees that his channeling is no longer effective he will go back to having a normal life.

... While I live it up with my Eve, Kristanna, getting rich with my channeled knowledge.

I don't need the JREF money, my powah is so awesome. I don't need the public's approval and acceptance. Poor Herc never thought to use it on the stock exchange and horse races. He wasted his power on gimmicks, trying to get believers. I know better. The believers will follow me once my channeled investments are cashed in!!!111!!!eleventy!!!

I can't believe the success i'm having now that God has made me Adam and is punishing the false Adam. In 900 years I will own the world!

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -5
...
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
OK, come back and brag to us all when you have won the lottery. In the mean time, shut up and stay on topic.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Snixtor, September 19, 2009
Herc,

What are you claiming all these "channeled" answers actually mean? Because to me they really do just look as though you opened up a book to a random page and wrote down what you say. All this is doing is showing how easy it is to find loose associations in language, connecting dots which are always going to be there by random chance. Correlating the answers after the fact is indicative only of the nature of human language. What's need is an answer, not some vague relation.

Can I win the million dollar paranormal prize?
"... with the background of wailing vendors"

What's the relation? More importantly, what's the answer? So, is that yes or no? And then there's the question itself. Can I win? Not will I win. The answer, be it yes or no, is irrelevant.

When will Herc die?
"... with a cheap little gun"

Literature is full of references to violence, death and time. Open almost any book and chances are good that you'll find a reference. It's not in the least bit indicative of anything paranormal.

Can you see what we're saying here Herc? What any skeptic is telling you? That you're finding connections simply because you're looking for them, twisting text and interpretations so they suit your criteria. It's like looking at the clouds, turning your head a little to the side and seeing how they're sort of in the shape of a dog. It doesn't mean anything (and hopefully for the sake of argument here you don't think it does mean anything), it's just the way the human mind tries to find patterns and make sense out of seemingly random noise.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by Surak, September 19, 2009
No Snixtor, Herc can't see this, this is his entire problem. That part of his brain appears to be damaged ... but other parts of his brain are sufficiently intact to allow him to use a computer and to get restraining orders against him in Australia

If Herc really believed his power was real, he would have made himself rich years ago using his channeled knowledge rather than hanging around here begging to have his ramblings assessed here.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
You can prove it is only 'noise' with a simple protocol.

Turn on your webcam, ask the same 7 questions and open a book to a random page.

Then let people see who's answers are better.

Compare me to a control, Randi likes to duplicate people's tricks, let's see him do it!

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
If Herc really believed his power was real, he would have made himself rich years ago using his channeled knowledge rather than hanging around here begging to have his ramblings assessed here.


That's true, but even for me, making money is not easy. I own camgirls.com it's worth is in the millions.
The biggest camgirl site makes $1,000,000 per day. They have 3,000 models online 24/7 charging $5 a minute,
that's a $,$$$ per MINUTE. There are another half dozen camgirl sites in Alexa top 1000.

So I'm already sitting on an empire, going public is for your benefit.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -2
...
written by Surak, September 19, 2009
See Herc, You just admitted again that you are powerless ... your ability to channel is proven to be nothing but noise because you can not use it to make money.

Whether or not you can make money by other means is irrelevant.

By the way Herc, Kristanna says hi, she says she likes me as Adam far more than you the false Adam.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
Domaining is investing, how is it any different to the stock market?

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -2
...
written by Surak, September 19, 2009
There is no difference Herc, because you still didn't use your supposed powers to make the money. As you clearly stated, making money with your supposed power is hard for you so you've got your domains instead. (as if anyone really believes that either)

How stupid would you have to be to not be able to quickly and easily become the richest person in the world using your supposed awesome powers? You would need nothing, no domains, no company, no inventions, nothing but a few dollars to invest in your channel results.

Are you really that stupid?

Ohhh right you are that stupid!!! ... because you have none of that, nothing but a criminal record and restraining orders and a lot of ridicule, because your channeling has never given you any meaningful results!


Kristanna was wonderful tonight. She kept calling me Adam, it was hot.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -4
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
I can only channel things I'm genuinely interested in.

I have no interest in which horse wins a race or which stock will rise,
so it won't work. Trust me the 1st thing I did when I found out I was Adam
was buy a lottery ticket.

It would be neat to channel anything at all, quizzes, paranormal tests etc. but
it would only take a few weeks to make all the money I needed, prove paranormal
and get the girls, so then I will have this 'trivia' power all my life that is
useless.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Surak, September 19, 2009
Welll now isn't that Conveeeeeennnnnnient!!!! hahahaha you can only 'channel' things you are interested in!! What an awesome excuse for your failings!

Yes, it would be neat to channel anything at all ... But its great that you just admitted again that you haven't channeled anything at all.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
It's become a bit of a cliche to ask someone with alleged psychic powers "Why haven't you won the lottery yet?" This involves a prediction of the future at long odds, but it is not the only power that could be tested. As long as the claim fell within JREF's remit and was testable within the MDC rules, there should be no problem. Herc's claims are too subjective and require personal interpretations, and he is unlikely to become an applicant for the MDC unless this is resolved.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 19, 2009
You can still get an effective evaluation of the answers.

List the 6 questions and the 6 answers sorted randomly.
Get some 'judges' to try to match them.

If someone can match all 7, then I defeated 1 in 7! odds.
(1 in 5040)

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -2
...
written by ianmacm, September 19, 2009
This is an improvement. Let's say that you answer seven questions at random. An observer is then asked to match the answers to the questions. As you point out, getting all seven right would require odds of 1 in 5040 (for the non maths buffs, 7! is the factorial of 7, which is 7x6x5x4x3x2x1). A sticking point might be what sort of questions were acceptable, but this is at least a testable proposal. Incidentally, this is only a forum discussion at the moment, and no promises are being made about an actual test. It would also require you to assume good faith from the observer, and not to accuse him/her of deliberately getting it wrong if you failed the test.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Snixtor, September 19, 2009
Herc,

I'm a bit loathe to try your experiment of repeating your questions and "chanelling" from a book myself, since regardless of the outcome you could still claim to have powers. If the answers I come up with are of similar "quality", or superior, then you could just claim that its your own powers affecting me. If the answers I come up with are complete gibberish, then you can claim superior ability for yourself.

If you want to convince people that you can accurately answer questions in this manner, you need to actually provide an answer. If it's a yes / no question, you need to give the answer yes or no, not some cryptic message that you can only correlate as an answer after the answer itself is revealed.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Surak, September 20, 2009
Herc,

You can still get an effective evaluation of the answers


NO. there's so many frauds in the world that easily make money from their fake powers. If you can't even make money with your supposedly 'real' answers, then you're not even as good as the known frauds. The biggest fraud you're committing is on yourself because you believe your own scam.

Snixtor,

Herc could easily give nothing but Yes / No answers, he just has to print out sheets of paper covered randomly in the words Yes and No and staple them into the form of a book and channel from that. But he won't because he knows it would prove him wrong. He'll make up another excuse to not do this. But even if Herc gave real Yes / No answers, when we show him YET AGAIN to be wrong, he would simply redefine what Yes and No mean to suit his needs, the way he's redefined Random, Coincidence, and Magnitude already in this thread.

Herc is brain damaged. The next restraining order placed on him should keep him off the internet.

Herc, Since you ignored it, here it is again where you admitted yet again that you know you can't channel anything at all:

It would be neat to channel anything at all

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 20, 2009
For those who haven't seen the video yet!



http://www.m00.com/psychic
Proof of psychic powers on video
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3
...
written by Surak, September 20, 2009
That's it Herc, avoid addressing your pathetic failures and your multiple admissions that you aren't actually channeling anything by posting your staged and fixed results. It's a shame that you don't even seem to realize how you're fixing the results yourself ... but that comes with the brain damage now doesn't it?

Also, you are not pointing at "I'm a witch", your finger appears to be on the word "dirt". You chose the word dirt, but saw that "I'm a witch" was above it and consciously chose to use those words instead to better suit your fraudulent purposes. I definitely agree that you are dirt.

Aren't you even curious what a doctor would say? Wouldn't you just love to get checked out and have a doctor say you are perfectly fine so that everyone reading this would not just blame your delusions on your brain damage?

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +1
...
written by Herc, September 20, 2009
I hope you're right Surak, because the Genesis Adam Correction Center For Blasphemers
is looking pretty full.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -2
...
written by ianmacm, September 20, 2009
Some of Surak's comments are bordering on trolling and personal abuse, so please tone it down. However, it is might be a good idea for Herc to ask a doctor what he/she thought about all of this. Another thing to bear in mind is Rule 12 of the MDC:

This offer is not open to any and all persons. Before being considered as an applicant, the person applying must satisfy two conditions: First, he/she must have a “media presence,” which means having been published, written about, or known to the media in regard to his/her claimed abilities or powers. This can be established by producing articles, videos, books, or other published material that specifically addresses the person’s abilities. Second, he/she must produce at least one signed document from an academic who has witnessed the powers or abilities of the person, and will validate that these powers or abilities have been verified.

In other words, have you managed to convince anyone in the media or the academic world that you can do this? My main concern remains the subjective nature of the claim. The MDC is not structured like a television talent contest where a judging or voting process is required. Any answers given should be easy to interpret as hits or misses. The alternative would be to risk a fudged result where people argued afterwards about whether the test was fair.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 20, 2009
Say Obama is at a press conference and is asked by a reporter, "Are you going to continue with the health reform?".
He answers "I am fully behind the proposal and it has already been passed by committee".

Is that subjective? Is it so hard to assess if an answer is on topic, from an intelligent being, or just a random quote?

In 5 to 10 years we'll have the mathematics to analyse language, calculate the context of phrases and the algorithm will assess my video as defeating 1 in billion odds. Even if each answer takes a person average 10 tries to get a better answer, I beat 1 in 10^7 odds, 1 in 10 million. But "why are you being tortured" -> "I'm a witch" defeated 10,000 to 1 with just one question. "Will Megan Fox win the Oscar" -> "Fox" how many times does the name Fox appear in a typical novel? You can try to get a better answer and you will be flipping pages of a book until Christmas without luck. Even if you do a rudimentary analysis, just mark each answer as "atleast slightly relevant" or "completely unrelated", just a pass/fail for each question, every answer I got was on topic, that's 1 in 2^7 odds I defeated, 1 in 128.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -2
...
written by ianmacm, September 20, 2009
Politicians are grandmasters at giving non-committal answers to questions (unless they are General Sherman, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S..._statement ). In any case, we are comparing apples and oranges here, because Barack Obama does not claim to have paranormal powers, at least not that I am aware of. Sorry, but I can't follow the logic of why "I'm a witch" has odds of 10,000 to 1. There seems to be a good deal of conjecture here, so I can't really comment.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Orolo, September 21, 2009

"Will Megan Fox win the Oscar" -> "Fox" how many times does the name Fox appear in a typical novel

Not often at all. However, when you select a particular book containing a certain William Gibson story in which a character with the name Fox appears, then you've certainly increased the odds in your favour.
If you deliberately selected that book to use in your channeling of a question about Megan Fox, then you're a charlatan. But if I'm feeling charitable, then you possibly don't realise that you pick particular books to get a better chance of a more appropriate answer. Let's see you try channeling answers out of something generic, like the dictionary.

report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 21, 2009
Not often at all. However, when you select a particular book containing a certain William Gibson story in which a character with the name Fox appears, then you've certainly increased the odds in your favour.
If you deliberately selected that book to use in your channeling of a question about Megan Fox, then you're a charlatan. But if I'm feeling charitable, then you possibly don't realise that you pick particular books to get a better chance of a more appropriate answer. Let's see you try channeling answers out of something generic, like the dictionary.


Good point! However even if I knew roughly what section that chapter was in and tried for a hit that way, what are my chances of landing on a sentence with "Fox" in it? Less than 1% IMO. Who would select a particular book just so they may luck out on 1 question. I actually channel better on web pages. And finding a relevant web page gives God if you will a better vocabulary to work with. E.g. I was on a AI site and asked can we program an AI? I scrolled down to a random section and read out "If we can combine modules of speech synthesis, memory, planning, vision, and what not. A dictionary works fine, but sequential flowing text works better, and phrases are better than words.

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
This should stop
written by Aaron, September 22, 2009
JREF should close this thread. Continuing to interact with Herc like this is just feeding his delusions. Stop.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by ianmacm, September 22, 2009
Reluctantly agree, but no need to be rude. Herc should be advised that a test of this particular claim is very unlikely. The first hurdle to overcome is Rule 12 of the MDC (show that there has been some interest from the media and academic world). Best wishes, Herc.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
...
written by Herc, September 22, 2009

Here's a simple analysis you can do yourself. Open a book and
pick the 1st random phrase you find.

I will use "this has been a very big problem in the past"

Tally how many times my answer was more in context than the control phrase.


Can I win the million dollar paranormal prize?
"... with the background of wailing vendors"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"





When will Herc die?
"... with a cheap little gun"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"




How do you know that you are Adam?
"... I dunno"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"




What can Adam do that would qualify for the JREF million dollar prize?
"Make them stop"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"




Why are you being tortured by the government?
"... I'm a witch"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"




Will Megan Fox win the Oscar for best actress in 2010?
"...in Tokyo Fox and I had adjoining suites"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"




Will Edmond Wollman ever pay back Susan Boyle?
"..He never calls the place"
"this has been a very big problem in the past"


7 out of 7. I defeated 1 in 128 odds. (Just with a simple 2 option analysis).

Herc
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -1
...
written by outsorcerer, September 25, 2009
I don't know where you come up with these arbitrary "odds"--they aren't remotely statistically accurate.

By Herc's own admission "topical" books are what he seeks out when doing his...whatever it is that we're calling this...topical books obviously are going to give far more false positives, and inflate the odds, as they're related to the subject matter at hand, rather than being a truly random collection of words.

The vast majority of Herc's "answers" aren't even answers anyway... asking if pi ever ends and getting back "random" is not only not answer...its a wrong answer. If pi ends is (either) no (or yes). Asking how someone knows if they're Adam is quite simply NOT answered by the "channeled" (and I use that term loosely) answer "I dunno"

Herc, I strongly suggest, even at the expense of your pride (I know how tough it can be to admit to yourself you're wrong), that you go see a liscensed mental health care professional, and see what they have to tell you about your "ability."
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +2
...
written by JeffWagg, October 25, 2009
I have been told that Herc has been picked up by the authorities for making threats against the public. I have no source to point to though. If this is true, I hope he gets the help he needs.
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: +0
newshopstyle
written by newshopstyle, November 02, 2009
Easy grip with ergonomic design and felt at the tip allows for an easier hold and control. The CHI Turbo Digital Ceramic Hairstyling Iron also provides versatile heat settings to achieve the perfect temperature specific to your hair type and style.
GHD Hair Straighteners
CHI Hair Straighteners
report abuse
vote down
vote up
Votes: -3

Write comment
This content has been locked. You can no longer post any comment.
You must be logged in to post a comment. Please register if you do not have an account yet.

busy