One of the things that's always puzzled me about the anti-vax movement is why people are motivated to rail against something with so much supportive evidence. Sure, there are legions of misinformed parents who think they're helping society by decrying the vaccination conspiracy, and there are certainly those that have experienced personal loss due to the very very rare negative side effects of vaccination. But Chiropractor Dr. Chad Rohlfsen illustrates in abundance what I think might be the primary motive for anti-vaccine rhetoric, and that is pure, simple, banal greed.
At the top of his vaccine911.com web site, Dr. Rohlfsen has the phrase "Because the right choice is the well informed choice." And I realize I'm Godwinning this article, but that phrase found on that site calls to mind the words Arbeit macht frei, which ironically graced the Nazi concentration camps. The fact that that statement is correct does not imply that reading Dr. Koren's material will lead to being well informed.
Take a look at the video linked above. If you visit it on YouTube, you'll notice that comments and ratings have been disabled. This is not the default on YouTube, and it means that Rohlfsen specifically doesn't want comments or ratings. Notice something else as well... the first thing in the video is a price tag: $14.99.
In the video, Rohlfsen claims that his three kids are never sick. They've never been vaccinated, have never received any medications, and his wife, who is a cardiac intensive care nurse, doesn't understand why everyone else's kids are sick. Rohlfsen implies that because he's a chiropractor and gives his kids weekly check ups and adjustments (including one an hour after his kids were born), his kids are healthy. He does admit to one ear infection, which he cured in four hours, presumably with chiropractic manipulation. If so, he has knowledge that will CHANGE THE WORLD FOREVER.
Consider this - if Rohlfsen is correct and the knowledge he has can prevent sickness in children, he could singlehandedly save millions of lives every year. But rather than publish a peer-reviewed paper in a professional medical journal and share his knowledge with the world, he'd rather sell it directly to you for the low low price of $14.99.
He also claims that there are no studies proving that vaccinated kids are healthier than non-vaccinated kids. Oh really? Two things, first: Google is your friend. Second: herd immunity is keeping your kids safe from diseases like small pox and polio. That's right Dr. Rohlfsen: the fact that other people do the responsible thing and vaccinate their kids is keeping your kids safe.
Ironically, Rohlfsen tosses out a bit about the use of ear tubes in children not being recommended by the "American Pediatric guidelines." Perhaps his referring to this article about the overuse of ear tubes in kids. Do you know what else "American Pediatric guidleines" say? VACCINATE YOUR KIDS.
Here's some more text from the site:
Why Spend Multiple Hours Searching For Research? When You Can Order A Common Sense DVD & Reference Book With Many Answers To Your Questions! This Information Will Help Solidify Your Concerns About Vaccination With Main Stream Peer Reviewed Medical Research & Government Studies The Media Sees Fit To Ignore
Indeed! Why spend all that time getting facts when you can just take what these grammatically-challenged chiropractors have to say? I should have typed that in intial caps, but I coudn't bear it.
I know we talk a lot about vaccination on Swift, and maybe some of you are getting tired of it. But this is an enormous issue that's having a real impact. Kids are dying today from diseases they were protected against years ago when vaccination was more common. And it irks me to no end that the "greedy medical" establishment is blamed for promoting vaccines simply to make a profit. These kind of statements are emotional appeals, and once the feeling of outrage takes over, reason needs careful and constant attention to have an effect.
However, let me try one of my own: there are anti-vaxxers out there who want to profit at the expense of your child's health. They would take money from you in exchange for information that if believed, will put your children and other children at increased risk for childhood diseases. In short, kids may die if you pay for and follow the advice of people like Dr. Rohlfsen. Emotional? Yes. Backed by evidence? You're damn right it is.
I should mention here that Rohlfsen's presentation was prepared by a Dr. Tedd Koren. Sadly, there are a lot of greedy individuals out there. The final cherry on the greed sundae that is vaccine911.com? They're asking for donations in addition to $14.99 for the video.
In my opinion, Dr. Rohlfsen is a threat to the health of your child. You don't have to pay anyone to be well-informed on the issue. Trust the medical doctors. Though there are crooks in any profession, the VAST majority of doctors are simply trying to do what's best for you and your kids.
I find it interesting that, if you look at the background of the video, he's talking on some sort of hotel conference room. It makes me wonder if he was charging the audience in that room for his knowledge as well... after all, someone has to pay the rental fee.
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GREAT article written by jer,
September 29, 2009
Thank you for posting an article that not only addresses the antivax issue quite well but also vividly reveals the for-profit aspect of this type of demagoguery.
And don't worry about posting too much about vaccination, as it's one of the most - if not THE single most - important topics this site can address. All woo is horse hockey. Antivax is horse hockey that kills children.
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... written by Otara,
September 29, 2009
The kindly voice telling you how to get your children killed.
We just had a court case in Australia about a person 'self treating' their child. The childs hair had turned white, cracks all through the skin, skin and bones in weight, and he still didnt go to a conventional doctor.
He was found guilty and jailed at least, small comfort to the dead child of course.
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... written by BMN,
September 30, 2009
Second: herd immunity is keeping your kids safe from diseases like small pox and polio.
I'm not sure about polio, but we most definitely do not have herd immunity against small pox. The general population has not been vaccinated against small pox for around 30 years. We drove that nasty virus to extinction -- save for samples in research facilities (or at least we hope that is the limit to it's remaining existence).
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GREAT article - Seconded! written by Kuroyume,
September 30, 2009
Don't stop talking about antivax and how their agenda would lead to outbreaks and epidemics, maybe even plagues. It is one of the greatest achievements of humanity that in the twentieth century we started to prevent these and eradicate the spread of debilitating and deadly diseases such as polio and smallpox. And, with continued expansion of vaccination, even third-world countries are starting to overcome these. Antivaxers now want to take us back to the early 1700s (before vaccinations were basically discovered and used) and watch tens, if not hundreds, of thousands die from perfectly preventable diseases. It is almost genocidal.
Keep up the fight and let's try to stop the profiteering like Rohlfsen's that would sustain this attack on proven medical advancement! (Note that Dr. was omitted)
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... written by KidDoc,
September 30, 2009
Great article and you hit the nail on the head! I am always amazed people believe someone who is making millions from their book on horror or vaccines or from their website selling alternative woo and not their pediatrician who is probably LOSING MONEY on vaccines and still stocking and paying for those vaccines to protect their children (there was a study recently that showed that 75% of the pediatricians in the state of Georgia lost money on vaccines: http://www.entrepreneur.com/tr...61275.html
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But you don't HAVE to pay! written by Sadhatter,
September 30, 2009
What really irks me about this garbage ( having friends who recently subscribe to antivax, 911truth, etc) is one of the main methods of argument used, anyone tell me if this sounds familiar.
" you know this guy is making more money for nothing. He is asking 15 dollars for a 1 dollar dvd that he needs no training to produce."
"well no, because i watched it on ( youtube, google video, prison planet, etc)"
I have encountered this brick wall dozens of times and while completely incorrect, in the mind of a believer it is an end all.
To me it is like a person stealing a one pound bag of cocain, then when you mention to them they are becoming a coke head , they reply " but i got it for free.".
First off, money is not the only thing that benefits these idiots , simply watching their video leads to one becoming a walking billboard , which benefits them just as much because even if you don't buy the dvd, or the homeopathic silver water ( looking at you leonard horowitz) , or the prison planet t-shirt, maybe the next person you show it to will.
Secondly, you are supposed to buy the dvd. In a world without piracy, and the extreme ease of it, anyone who wanted to know what they had to say, would have to buy the dvd. And as much as i hate to say it, these intellectual sinkholes, have as much right to intellectual ( i hate to use that word in this context) property rights a anyone. You are stealing from them every time you watch the movie on youtube. You getting the (shudder) information for free is not what they intend, and i am sure if they could they would stop it.
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Why Spend Multiple Hours Searching For Research? written by Todd W.,
September 30, 2009
Yeah. Why? Other people have already done a lot of it for you:
Here we go again... written by Griz,
September 30, 2009
...fighting misinformation with misinformation
"I know we talk a lot about vaccination on Swift, and maybe some of you are getting tired of it. But this is an enormous issue that's having a real impact. Kids are dying today from diseases they were protected against years ago when vaccination was more common."
Please give some references to support this statement, because I don't think it's even remotely true.
That's the World Health Organizations report on vaccination rates world wide. The coverage has done nothing but climb and the incidence of disease has done nothing but go down (there is a dip in the data around the beginning of this century which the document attributes to changes in reporting methodology.)
It drives me crazy when people on this site do exactly what they mock and deride the vaccination opponents for doing: arguing with anecdote and emotion.
Please, someone think of all the dying children!
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PS written by Griz,
September 30, 2009
If perchance someone wants to move the goalposts to the US specifically, that data can be found on page R-230 of the document I linked to, which is a PDF that you can save or print out for future reference in RATIONAL discussions of the subject. According to what I see there, vaccination rates in the US have held pretty steady in the last decade.
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@Griz written by JeffWagg,
September 30, 2009
You will note that I mentioned that it was an emotional appeal?
Please check this article http://tinyurl.com/y9ktzc7 from the UK's National Health Service that indicated a drop in vaccination rates (more than a decade ago) with an increase in measles incidence.
He did not vaccinate his kids? Hmmm...that's a fishy claim; here is why written by Craxus55,
September 30, 2009
He claims as part of his scam story that he never vaccinated his kids. To my mind this means, well, that they have received no vaccinations of any kind. If that's the case, where do they go to school? To my recollection, children attending public schools have to show proof of certain vaccinations. This is also the case if they attend private school. Perhaps they are home schooled? That is a possibility; he is, after all, a chiropractor. Does anyone know what the current vacination requirements are for Demoines area public schools? My speculation, and it is pure speculation, is that he is an unashamed liar; his kids are vaccinated. After all, we know that he has the capacity to commit large scale fraud; he is a chiropractor.
Another thing to note, of course, is that even if his kids are not vaccinated, they are living amongst a population of people who largely are vaccinated. As a result, diseases like polio, etc are quite rare. If he wants to put his money where his mouth is, he should take his kids and himself to Calcutta for a couple of years.
That is sad indeed! It's been awhile since I had any interaction with schools so maybe there have been changes. That said, it does appear the DesMoines area schools require vacinations; you can view their form here: http://www.dmps.k12.ia.us/programs/4health.htm. I can find no indication that a waiver would be allowed or even exists. I say the man is a liar or home schools his kids, in which case his kids will grow up to be mystified morons.
Yes I think you are spot on with your observations here. He has no genuine intention to add to the anti-vaccination debate, only to promote his own product. I don't understand the minset of people who buy into this kind of promotional pitch.
Baby Gender Predictor
Chinese pregnancy calendar
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... written by QHudspeth,
September 30, 2009
@Craxus55 I hear ya. First red flag that came up was he never admitted his kids must be home schooled. Okay, I'm guessing that, really, based on what happened with my daughter. She was getting sick a lot, typical ear infections. So we took her out of day care and kept her home with me. And, Lo! no more ear infections. Very few colds, etc. Same story really. So, I'm thinking, these kids never went to public day care. Add that to the non-vaccination, and they are either home schooled or in private schooling (some private schools will waive vaccination requirements on the basis of religion).
And finally, Notice that the comments are turned off for that video? What a gyp!
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Jeff written by Griz,
September 30, 2009
So we've moved the goalposts to Britain and the Netherlands using information that's seven and five years old respectively? Neither of those links has any kind of numbers or references useful to determining how much the vaccination levels had "dropped" in those two small countries. But they do contain comments like:
"We are reporting a correlation between the drop in vaccinations and the increasing size of measles outbreaks. Of course the coincidence is suggestive of a causative connection, but we can not draw this conclusion from our data,"
and
"The institute says the falling vaccination levels have not caused the epidemic [of whooping cough in the UK] but may make it worse." Clarifying information in brackets added by me.
I fail to see how calling this an emotional appeal absolves you of the responsibility to support your rather dramatic statements. And I haven't yet even brought up the total lack of evidence of a causative relationship between anti-vaccine propaganda and the alledgedly falling rates of vaccination.
I thought we were all about evidence around here. Was I wrong? Or is it a standard applied only to those whose claims are classified as "woo" by mob rule?
"If she wieghs the same as a duck..." "Then she's mad of wood?" "And therefore..." "A WITCH! To the scales with her!"
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Griz? written by Michael K Gray,
September 30, 2009
Griz appears to be counselling all of us to wait until these parasitic criminals have an historically statistically measurable effect before taking action to stop what is obvious to any vaguely conscious person amounts to incitement to infant genocide. I, for one, am not prepared to wait until a large rise in infant mortality appears in annual reports before starting to stem this dangerous rubbish. Griz seems to disagree with both me and Jeff.
About 5 years ago I was associated with antivaxers, because I was part of the homeschool community in North Carolina. I stayed on the fence intellectually and erred on the side of (perceived) caution and delayed vaccinating for quite a while. I did point out to one mom that if more parents were like "us" (antivaxers) then our kids would be in more danger of dangerous diseases. She didn't have a response to that. It was a similar line of reasoning that eventually pushed me toward vaccinating. I decided that it was wrong for me to benefit from other parents taking the risk (I perceived at the time) that I wasn't taking. In addition, I figured that my children were more at risk of these diseases, because I was part of the homeschool community. This decision was made after much handwringing when my third child was born. I was full of fear and worry for months until I made the decision to vaccinate, especially because this child was my first boy, and autism is more present in boys. At first I didn't see the connection with JREF and vaccinating, but I get it now. Keep up the info about it. BTW, I live in New Zealand now, and they are not very forceful about vaccinating here. There has just been a measles outbreak in Christchurch and NOW the schools and media are putting out info alerting people to get the MMR. It seems the percentage of vaccinated persons here isn't quite enough to ensure herd immunity.
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Michael K Gray written by Griz,
September 30, 2009
Infant genocide? Shame on you. Folks around here demand HARD evidence to support beliefs unless it's something they want to believe in.
I just showed you hard evidence that vaccination rates have not dropped, nor has incidence of the diseases risen. You ignore this (doubt you even looked at it) and imply that I'm in favor of infant genocide. Way to be rational.
OMFG, children, CHILDREN are dying!
Let's just promote vaccination without the wailing and gnashing of teeth. It really isn't helpful.
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KiDoc written by Griz,
September 30, 2009
From the link you posted:
"Traditionally, the government has measured immunization noncompliance by tallying up only missed doses of a vaccine. In this new research, the CDC recalculated immunization compliance to include vaccine lapses in addition to missed doses. Based on these new criteria, the CDC found that immunization compliance was actually 9 percentage points lower than previous estimates, dropping the compliance rate from 81 percent to 72 percent."
Vaccination rates didn't drop, the way they count them has changed. They have discovered a potential problem which is not new but previoiusly unknown. This has what to do with the anti-vaccination people?
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I think the best explanation of this guy claiming his kids have never been sick... written by Griz,
September 30, 2009
...is probably that he's lying. Occam's razor rules.
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... written by KidDoc,
September 30, 2009
Are you serious Griz? Come sit in my office and watch while I spend at least an hour a day discussing idiots like the one this article highlighted and try to reassure parents that there is actually a SCIENTIFIC REASON why we vaccinate on a certain schedule. That CDC article actually highlighted the biggest issue we deal with and that is people delaying vaccines due to fears propagated by the anti-vaccination camp. The parents believe there is some credibility to their propaganda so they "split the difference".
@KidDoc "split the difference" written by Kay-the-fish,
September 30, 2009
Yes. That is what I did. I delayed. I wouldn't let the doctors give all the injections due on one day. That last link you offered is very interesting and I look forward to reading all of it tonight. Do you know of any links on why the schedule requires 5 DTaP (6 by adolescence)? Are these numbers based on human trials? Why does it take so many doses for the immune system to really "get it"?
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@Griz written by Kay-the-fish,
September 30, 2009
In this, and in other threads, you have made a point. It almost seems like hairsplitting at times, but I understand the need to be accurate. Despite that, I have trouble receiving your comments without a kneejerk dislike. I think your points would have more power without the finger-pointing (at Jeff especially) and, for lack of a better word, drama. A more diplomatic approach may be useful. Simply stating the way you see it may be enough to open some readers' eyes, even if you don't get your point to your intended target.
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... written by twoyboy,
September 30, 2009
Is anyone actually reading Griz's comments? Griz is not anti-vax, but simply saying using misinformation like "Kids are dying today from diseases they were protected against years ago when vaccination was more common." isn't doing the argument any favours.
Griz has also provided cold, hard facts (from the WHO no less) to support their argument. Seriously, just because you don't like his or her tone, there's no reason to vote down Griz's comments or argue against them. For goodness sake people, try not to be so damned knee-jerk...
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@twoboy written by Kay-the-fish,
September 30, 2009
I hope you are not commenting at me. I said he had a point, just that he might be better received if he used another tone.
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@Kay-the-fish written by twoyboy,
September 30, 2009
Mostly to the people voting down Griz's comment, but in all seriousness who cares about tone? We're not worried about being nice to the anti-vaxers when they're wrong, why are we worried about being so nice to one another? Griz did exactly what we're always asking people to do, present a clear argument supported by legitimate references... and we get on their case because they weren't nice about it? How sensitive are we?
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The evidence is already very clear written by Kuroyume,
September 30, 2009
What is Griz's point though? That vaccinations haven't done what they do? That people who don't vaccinate are imperiling others isn't guaranteed to promulgate disease propagation? I don't get the gist of the argument. It is PROVEN that vaccinations work and that without them, epidemics and plagues occur. Anti-vaxers want people to stop getting vaccinated (on extremely shaky premises). The more people they recruit into this philosophy, the further we slip back in time with respect to the suppression of epidemics and plagues. If that isn't clear, then Griz needs to read up a lot on historical facts. The only way to get the 'data' that Griz wants is to allow this idiocy to continue to spread to see where the facts lead. That is a bad course - and one that is more than sufficiently backed up by the data gathered to date.
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Misinformation written by Kuroyume,
September 30, 2009
We are all too familiar with the religious and other influences keeping proper medicinal and preventative measures from allowing HIV/AIDS to propagate in Africa (as read right here at the JREF site). Letting things run their course isn't a viable option - it is laissez-faire and presumptuous. The data is already in - vaccination works. Anti-vaxers should not be allowed to spread misinformation that 'may' (and WILL) lead to outbreaks, epidemics, and deaths. This isn't emotional rhetoric - it is fact!
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... written by Otara,
September 30, 2009
"but in all seriousness who cares about tone"
Anyone who wants to seriously persuade other people I would hope. Like it or not, tone has a huge impact on how seriously your views will be taken by other people, forgoing its use just means you're giving away an effective tool to woo types. Its just the way we're built.
Otara
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Godwin written by bgw,
October 01, 2009
Jeff: please, please, oh please stop making stupid Nazi comparisons. Godwin's law states that the first person to make a Nazi comparison loses the argument - and indeed, you write a very good argument, with which I agree completely, and then you ridicule it by childish and stupid comparisons with "Arbeit macht frei". I fear our side will lose credibility with such stupid statements. Did I mention Nazi comparisons are stupid?
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Kuroyome written by Griz,
October 01, 2009
When I try and try and try to restate my argument here in different ways over, what, six or eight threads now, and I have the same people (you) failing to understand my point, I begin to conclude that the failure is not with me.
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KiDoc written by Griz,
October 01, 2009
Your first rant is anecdotal, especially since there's no way we're ever going to see an end to all the medical misinformation out there. However, the link you provided is very good and actually the very first hard evidence I have seen to date that indicates that there is any tendancy that vaccination coverage has dropped. It's also good because it mentions that the rate differs by area. Although we can't know for sure what the reasons are, you can make a good case by the discussion of the school vaccination waivers that it's people who have been swayed by some anti vaccination rhetoric.
This is a good place to start examining the REAL issue here. The coverage rates dropped as much as two percentage points in some areas. The article went on to say that annual measles cases were around 62 cases annually and that in 2008 between 1/1 and 4/25 there were 64 cases.
Now, that highlights a potential problem, and one that needs to be fought against...BUT...
It is NOT an infant genocide! It is not a mounting death toll.
I'm being chastised for my tone. Okay, I hear that. Believe it or not, it's not the first time I've been accused of being abrasive and confrontational But where's the chastisement for the tone of the people using the innaccurate and inflammatory statements? Where's the chastisement for those who presenting statements as fact which are not only unsupported but deomnstrably untrue?
If this was 4chan or Fark.com or some other internet gathering place of general rabble I'd just sit back and laugh, but this is the JREF. Those of us that frequent this place make an avocation out of demanding evidence. It just frustrates the living hell out of me that so many people here deride others for their unsupported beliefs and then turn around and say things like "infant genocide" which is nothing but an unsupported belief, and then they get all pissy when I call them on it and make these emotional posts of twisted logic and rationalization because they got caught.
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Kay-the-Fish written by Griz,
October 01, 2009
Thanks for acknowledging that I have a point, however faint the praise As far as tone, I only follow the example of our fearless leader, James Randi. As far as criticism goes, I like to think I can take it as well as dish it out. I'm well aware that if I fire the first shot I'm likely to recieve a volley in return.
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@Griz written by Kuroyume,
October 01, 2009
I'm not chastizing you but wondering where you want to go with your 'we need hard data' argument. For instance, let's make up a situation that is analogous to this one. We have a group of people who are claiming that wearing seatbelts while driving in your vehicles can, being a bit facetious, cause spinal chord injuries and it is better not to wear seatbelts. Do we *really* need to let this stupid idea propagate to allow studies and data that show that not wearing seatbelts results in more deaths and worse injuries? It is obvious and there is already data to support the usefulness of seatbelts in reducing injuries and deaths. On the other hand, there is real study going on concerning airbags in vehicles. While they are even more effective at injury/death reduction, under some circumstances they can also induce injury/death (in children). Still, I'd take precautions, even with small chances of dangerous side-effects, over nothing at all.
While anti-vaxers might not be having a major impact on infection rates, it is guaranteed that if this trend were to increase, infection rates would increase.
When I have the time, I'll look around for hard data where anti-vax agenda has caused infection rate increases in certain areas. Mind you, their impact is currently limited and the data will probably be for small regions.
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... written by KidDoc,
October 01, 2009
Here's a few examples. Vaccination rates continue to be overall high in the U.S. -but there are pockets in areas of the country where 'like-minded' persons tend to cluster and there have been outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases.
Parental Refusal of Pertussis Vaccination Is Associated With an Increased Risk of Pertussis Infection in Children Jason M. Glanz, PhDa,b, David L. McClure, PhDa, David J. Magid, MD, MPHa,b, Matthew F. Daley, MDa,c,d, Eric K. France, MD, MSPHe, Daniel A. Salmon, PhD, MPHf and Simon J. Hambidge, MD, PhDa,b,d,g
a Institute for Health Research e Department of Prevention, Kaiser Permanente Colorado, Denver, Colorado; Departments of b Preventive Medicine and Biometrics d Pediatrics, University of Colorado, Denver, Colorado c Department of Pediatrics, Children's Hospital, Denver, Colorado f Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, Maryland g Community Health Services, Denver Health, Denver, Colorado
OBJECTIVE. The objective of this study was to determine if children who contracted pertussis infection were more likely to have parents who refused pertussis vaccinations than a similar group of children who did not develop pertussis infection.
METHODS. We conducted a case-control study of children enrolled in the Kaiser Permanente of Colorado health plan between 1996 and 2007. Each pertussis case was matched to 4 randomly selected controls. Pertussis case status and vaccination status were ascertained by medical chart review.
RESULTS. We identified 156 laboratory-confirmed pertussis cases and 595 matched controls. There were 18 (12%) pertussis vaccine refusers among the cases and 3 (0.5%) pertussis vaccine refusers among the controls. Children of parents who refused pertussis immunizations were at an increased risk for pertussis compared with children of parents who accepted vaccinations. In a secondary case-control analysis of children continuously enrolled in Kaiser Permanente of Colorado from 2 to 20 months of age, vaccine refusal was associated with a similarly increased risk of pertussis. In the entire Kaiser Permanente of Colorado pediatric population, 11% of all pertussis cases were attributed to parental vaccine refusal.
CONCLUSIONS. Children of parents who refuse pertussis immunizations are at high risk for pertussis infection relative to vaccinated children. Herd immunity does not seem to completely protect unvaccinated children from pertussis. These findings stress the need to further understand why parents refuse immunizations and to develop strategies for conveying the risks and benefits of immunizations to parents more effectively.
In June 2008, the United Kingdom's Health Protection Agency declared that, because of a drop in vaccination coverage levels (to 80%--85% among children aged 2 years), measles was again endemic in the United Kingdom (3,, 14 years after it had been eliminated
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newshopstyle written by newshopstyle,
November 02, 2009
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Such Bold Statements..... Can you back them up? I can... written by Chad Rohlfsen DC,
June 09, 2010
Interesting article. False, but interesting.... Would you be willing to appear on my radio show and back it up? I'd love to have you as a guest... We have Skype webcam capabilities. Wondering.... I spent upwards of $6000 for the production of this DVD... How come is it that you think I should work for free? Do you work for free? I've spent hundreds of hours researching this information. Do YOU work for free? It's a complete fallacy to suggest that I should give this information out to the world without the ability to at least re-coup my costs. Let me know if you would be interested on debating this topic with me...
Chad Rohlfsen DC drchad@rohlfsen.com www.vaccine911.com www.tuningintohealth.com
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But where's the chastisement for the tone of the people using the innaccurate and inflammatory statements? Where's the chastisement for those who presenting statements as fact which are not only unsupported but deomnstrably untrue? 
, 14 years after it had been eliminated