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Those Herbs are Bad, These Herbs are Good PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Jeff Wagg   
Friday, 09 October 2009 00:00

It took a very long time, but Dr. Christine Daniel was recently arrested on two counts of wire and mail fraud. She claimed to be able to cure cancer through herbal treatments, and even appeared on the religious Trinity Broadcasting Network touting how her treatments had a 60% cure rate, even in the most serious cases.

She is also a Pentecostal Minister, and she used this position to home in on people in her community. She'd promise them help through unapproved treatments that cost thousands of dollars. She urged her patients to stop "toxic" chemotherapy and instead begin a regimen of prayer and her exclusive product, "C-extract," an "herbal" remedy.

Oh, the irony.

We applaud the federal government for cracking down on this alleged felon, who now faces up to 80 years in prison, but there's another point to be made here. Chemotherapy is ALSO an herbal remedy.

That's right—the "chemo" in the therapy is chemicals derived from plants such as mayapple and yew. These plants are found in nature, and are herbal by any definition. Are they toxic? You bet, that's why they kill cancer. They attack fast growing cells, many of which are cancerous. Unfortunately, stomach linings and hair follicles are also attacked, though there are new delivery methods that can help mitigate these unwanted side effects. The fact of the matter remains: if an "herbal" treatment works in the treatment of a medical condition, the modern medical establishment will use it! That's why the only working definition for "alternative medicine" is "medicine that doesn't work." If it did, it would be used by non-alternative medicine.

People like Daniel claim that the medical interest places greed ahead of their patients' best interest, and while there may be some truth to that, it is certainly MORE true of people like Daniel who ignore peer reviewed studies and positive results of mainstream medicine in favor of her own exclusive treatments which line her own pockets as her patients die. I wish cases like this could be dealt with more efficiently: she was arrested due to activities over five years old. How many people have suffered and died in the last five years who could have been saved had they followed the advice of respectable doctors?

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written by MadScientist, October 09, 2009
So which chemo drugs are from yew and mayapple? One of the most toxic and generally used are synthetic and involve the metal platinum. So chemo drugs are not necessarily herbal. Come to think of it, quite a few cancer drugs are synthetic - and all are extremely toxic; trying to make the drugs more specific or to improve the localization of the delivered drug remains a challenge to the drug chemists out there.
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written by rjh02, October 09, 2009
I fail to see the difference between this case and anyone else offering alternative cures and treatments for cancer and other issues that have not been proven to work. Maybe this is the test case for more prosecutions?
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written by Dooyoowoowoo, October 10, 2009
Preying on the vulnerable, frightened and desperate (from a "christian" no less!). Covers most woo "cures" I think, lets hope it leads to many more of these parasites being put out of business.
Tamoxifen was first obtained from Pacific Yew although it's synthesised now.
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written by sailor, October 10, 2009
No question it is excellent that this fraud is being dealt with. But

"The fact of the matter remains: if an "herbal" treatment works in the treatment of a medical condition, the modern medical establishment will use it! That's why the only working definition for "alternative medicine" is "medicine that doesn't work." If it did, it would be used by non-alternative medicine."

I find this simplistic. The medical industry works in certain grooves. Even the plants/drugs that get subjected to research are dependent on funding being available for that research. Also doctors far prefer to prescribe a pill than try to get someone to change their lifestyle or diet. Where some active ingredient from a plant can be extracted, patented and prescribed, it will probably be done. Get rid of the patented and it not quite so likely.

I seem to remember a study quoted in Overdosed America, where the effect of statins was compared with giving patients advice about exercise and diet (just advice no enforcement), the latter was found to be more effective, but what most doctors do, is prescribe statins. Also lots of studies have shown the benefits of eating green vegetables (here is an example http://cme.medscape.com/viewar...ac=29096PN) But it has proved impossible to extract and enpill the effective ingredients. So eating green vegetables is not really part of our medicine, though it should be.

Don't get me wrong, modern medicine is highly effective in most cases of serious sickness, but the effect of herbs and foods should not be automatically dismissed, but like everything else, look for the evidence.
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written by Party Cactus, October 10, 2009
Mayapple, by the way, is darned tasty. Fruit that's less than dead ripe can mess you up good, and you're nuts if you use it like some herbalists do (as in if you use it in the powered root form, not in the purified measured dose of podophyllotoxin administered by someone who knows what's going on), and even ripe fruits are still a little poisonous, but for a plant that can kill you, the fruits are pretty good if you can manage to find ripe ones. Like a yummy sweet jelly lemon with seeds that you probably shouldn't swallow. You can eat yew too (just the red part around the seed, eating the rest or the seed night paralyze your heart), but I don't think they're as good as mapapple.
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A more effective Anti-CAM approach
written by Willy K, October 10, 2009
...two counts of wire and mail fraud...
This might be the legally correct terminology, but I think that it might be useless in getting people to stop falling for CAM scams. It sounds a little too sterile and remote for some people to relate to.

I advocate for a more direct and plain language approach. I think it would be more effective to describe Daniel's scheme in the following manner.

“Christine Daniels has been arrested for selling cancer cures that do not work. She was using a church to sell her fake medicine and steal peoples money.”

If a church goer reads this, they might reject her claims simply because she used a church to enrich herself. The church goer would not feel that their religion was being attacked and then they might join in the anti-CAM lobby.

Whatcha think folks? smilies/wink.gif
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written by jay.tarnoff, October 10, 2009
I think that the problem continues to deal with the misunderstanding of the treatment of mainstream (standard non-alternative medicine (SNAM as opposed to Complimentary Alternative Medicine (CAM))... that's right, you can quote the neologism). I think the public needs to understand the scientific rigor that goes into any medication approved by the FDA, and needs to heed the warning label of "These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, and are not designed to diagnose, treat, cure...."

Alternative, by definition, has not shown to have significant positive effects over standard medical treatment; which means, that statistically, no matter what treatment is being accepted over standard medical care, the CAM treatment is statistically less likely to produce effective outcomes (or any positive outcomes at all). There is a large statistical gap between 1) shown to have any effect, and 2) not evaluated in the least bit.
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Alternative TO medicine!
written by Michael K Gray, October 10, 2009
I have a one-person consciousness-raising campaign with singular aim of persuading rational folk to stop and think before they write or utter the term "Alternative Medicine".
They should pause for thought, before substituting "Alternative TO Medicine".
In radio and TV interviews this can have an positive effect on the listening audience.
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more on Alternative to Medicine
written by StarTrekLivz, October 10, 2009
Think of it: what is taught and practised as medicine is evidence based, tested, effective treatment.

If anything is discovered, whether it is some new herbs, some chemicals, whatever, if it passes the criteria of evidence based, tested, and effective it's "medicine."

Anything else is either "to be tested" or "demonstrated to be ineffective at best, detrimental at worst."


We don't do "alternative gravity," "alternative accounting," "alternative building codes," etc. In your job, would you accept "alternative payment" for your labor? Don't you usually expect the local currency?

And for those who think the "ancients" had "secret knowledge" of various remedies, whether herbal, dietary, lifestyle, how is it that modern humans in areas with safe drinking water, good sewage systems, safe and reliable food delivery systems (including items of dubious nutritional value, like my beloved Single Malt Scotch and Dark Chocolate), vaccinations, and decent medical care have lifespans double or triple that of the "ancients"?
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What goes around...
written by Holmstrom, October 11, 2009
One can only hope that while serving a, (hopefully,) long prison sentence, "Doctor" Daniels will not be allowed to "treat" fellow inmates.
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CAM? SCAM?
written by skepticnj, October 11, 2009
We ought to take a tip from Mark Crislip (see QuackCast) and add an "S" - for"supplements" - in front of CAM.
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written by OPa, October 11, 2009
I would have to disagree with Sailor's assertion that doctors only want to prescribe a pill. Rather it is the patient who wants the quick fix, the pill; they do not want to have to do anything that would require an effort on their part--they want the doctor to do the fixing. No diet/lifestyle/exercise change is desired. Give me something, Doc, so I can go on sitting on my butt, drinking, smoking and eating excessively. Heaven forbid that I would have to do anything to maintain my own health.
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written by LovleAnjel, October 12, 2009
I could think of a few cases of "alternative accounting"...
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@MadScientist
written by Sax and Violins, October 13, 2009
So which chemo drugs are from yew and mayapple?

Paclitaxel from the pacific yew, and Podophyllotoxin from the American Mayapple.

quite a few cancer drugs are synthetic
One has to consider that "synthetic" only means that it was produced, not that it isn't chemically identical to a natural substance you could extract and purify from a plant (or other source). (Although I suppose the fact it's chemically identical will not mean much to people that insist on relying on "natural" compounds.)
e.g. Aspirin is synthetic, but it's the same substance found in willow bark. It's just simpler and cheaper to produce it than to extract it. So whenever possible, reproducing a substance is the preferred route by pharmaceutical companies. (Which also allows them to try to make variation that may work better, such as the various variations on penicillin.)
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Willows and Aspirin
written by JonK, October 13, 2009
A very minor correction to the excellent post by "Sax and Violins." Willow bark contains several compounds in the salicylic acid family, all of which largely function like aspirin. These include the acid, but primarily salicin, a compound of salicylic acid linked to D-glucose,a sugar. Aspirin, however, is acetylsalicyclic acid, a compound first prepared in pure form by Feix Hoffman at Bayer in 1897, in an attempt to find salicylic derivatives that were more potent and had fewer side effects than the extracted natural compounds. (Aspirin had been synthesized earlier--probably first by Charles Gerhardt in 1853--but in impure form.) To the best of my knowledge, aspirin does not naturally occur in willow bark to any significant extent, though extracts of willow have been used in medicine since antiquity. Aspirin is an excellent example of a "natural" remedy improved upon by science.
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Correction to my correction
written by JonK, October 13, 2009
Bad proof reading on my part: it's Felix Hoffman at Bayer.
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written by rjh02, November 11, 2009
I think JREF needs to send a bill to the spammers for the spam that has been posted.
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