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Heavy Metal PDF Print E-mail
Swift
Written by Naomi Baker   
Thursday, 12 November 2009 09:59

The October 27th edition of The Wall Street Journal ran a story called "Metals: Panacea or Placebo?aurasol" by science reporter Melinda Beck that put a skeptical eye on claims of medical and health benefits to the use of metals (copper, silver, gold, titanium, and magnetic items) as adornments and "dietary ‘supplements." The same week, a blog post by Steven Novella at Science-Based Medicine discussed the recently published "Therapeutic effects of magnetic and copper bracelets in osteoarthritis: A randomised placebo-controlled crossover trial" from Complementary Therapies in Medicine (abstract), which documented a controlled test on the efficacy of magnetic or copper bracelets to help arthritis and other ailments. Unsurprisingly, any benefits from the different bracelets were no better than placebo. Readers are referred to his excellent write-up for a discussion of the study and links to other peer-reviewed work. In it, the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, a dollar-sucking entity foisted on the taxpayers by Congress, admits that it has found no evidence for beneficial effects on fibromyalgia, migraines, or other painful conditions, from the use of metal bracelets. The idea of people volunteering to put large amounts of metal and metal solutions into their bodies intrigued me, so I reviewed the current state of Metal Medicine.

A couple years ago, Paul Karason became briefly famous as the "blue man" whose skin turned blue due to argyria -- a condition where silver collects in the skin and organs and reacts with light, much as the silver emulsion on film. He dosed himself with silver solutions that he created in his home, a procedure easy for anyone who has taken a basic high school chemistry class. "I did it all on my own," he said. "Originally, I just saw an ad for a colloidal silver generator in a magazine and the picture stuck in my head like a song might stick in your head. I had a friend who had severe petroleum poisoning, and I heard colloidal silver was helpful for that, and that's how I started." In the same interview, he admitted that his original health problem, dermatitis, was not cured by ingesting silver, although he continued to drink silver solutions daily. Proponents of colloidal silver claim that ingesting silver can cure or treat colds, flu, cancer, diabetes, herpes, shingles, and HIV/AIDS, among other ailments. Silver solutions, such as silver nitrate, have been used as anti-microbial disinfectants for many years, and frequently used as eyedrops for newborns to prevent conjunctivitis (although most former uses have been supplanted by newer, less toxic treatments). The FDA has repeatedly stated that ingesting silver is not beneficial, is not even safe, and can cause kidney damage.

Of course, one man's woo is another man's scam. A company called Purest Colloids charges that Karason was not using the correct silver (he's ingesting silver in an ionic solution instead of pure silver in a colloid form), and that the stories about his condition are a hoax on the American people. From their web site:

The Blue Man charade demonstrates once again that the mass media cannot be trusted to report anything that even resembles a truthful "news" story. All "news" today is propagated with an agenda just like the phony economic statistics put out the U.S. government.

In other words, a conspiracy to make people afraid to take silver supplements. Oh, yeah.

Silver is not the oldest "magic metal." Magnets have been tried as treatments for thousands of years. Randi has written extensively about the Q-ray and magnetic bracelets, and those scams continue to be perpetrated on the public with the usual blather about aligning one's auras, improving the blood flow by acting on the iron in hemoglobin, and other wishful thinking. Dozens of websites sell these items, and while I do not wish to drive traffic to their sites, it's interesting to poke around to see the prices, claims, and testimonials. "I thought I could save money," says one alleged testimonial, "by buying another magnetic bracelet from another company advertising them at half the price with 5000 gauss. Well, let me tell you, I was scammed! When that ‘other' bracelet came in, I checked the magnetic strength by seeing how strongly it attaches to a piece of metal compared to your bracelet...Thanks for a great product!" To view the going prices for lumps of metal, see for example Ace Magnetics or AACopper, which warns you again those cheap Chinese copper bracelets that don't leave a green ring on your wrist. By doing a search of various magnet proponents, you'll find you can now buy magnetic mattress pads, cushions, hair brushes -- and even styling gel! I suspect if you spend $30 for magnetic hair spray, you are going to see some effects. (These items are ubiquitous on the internet, and a new company pops up every time one is shut down. For instance, in 2002, Quackwatch reported that the California Attorney General sued European Health Concepts for selling magnetic mattress pads and cushions. They've been out of business since then, but Googling 'magnetic mattress pad' turned up a dozen sites, selling pads running upwards of $800.)

Magnets are cheap to manufacture, but for a classy scam you need something more exotic. Gold has an ancient history as a nearly-magical elixir to provide immortality. For many years, gold salts were used to treat lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, although the toxicity of the metal caused mouth sores, kidney damage, and occasionally, problems with the bone marrow's ability to make new blood cells (a side effect that killed one of my engineering professors). One supplier, Optimox, carries colloidal gold in tablet form. Although their site states "For use as a source of colloidal metallic gold without medical or health claims," the subsequent copy clearly implies that colloidal gold can detoxify the liver, act as a anti-oxidant, control joint pain and swelling, and promote resistance to infection. (Since my 50 hours of college chemistry is nearly 30 years old, I won't embarrass myself with a critique of all their claims about redox reactions, but invite knowledgeable readers to comment.) Another alarming claim, among many, is that taking 30 mg of gold per day for one month increases IQ scores by 20%. In rough terms, that means a month's worth of tablets could take a person of average IQ into the top 5-10% of the population.

A more recent trend in metal therapies is titanium, which started in Japan. Generally, companies market titanium bracelets or pendants, claiming that the material enhances the flow of energy and creates a positive charge that cancels out pain's negative charge -- i.e., neutralizing the pain. To my knowledge, this particular benefit of titanium has not made it into the anesthesiologist's tool bag. Some sites sell titanium items to relieve stress or back pain, and feature testimonials from professional athletes. One company, Rob Diamond, explains how the bracelet causes ions in the blood to push against vessel walls, causing heat, which improves circulation and carries away toxins. One of the biggest hawkers of titanium products is Phiten, founded by a chiropractor in Japan. This company has taken the snake oil to a new level, infusing titanium particles into lotions, clothing, shoes, and bedding. Testimonials from Olympic athletes and baseball players spread the word, enforcing the placebo effects of the items. They also market a product called "G Water" which they claim will suppress fatigue of the brain when you spray it on the head.

As the author of the WSJ article remarked "Perhaps if consumers became smarter, they would be more skeptical of such claims."

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hard times
written by cthulhu_4_president, November 12, 2009
It's fascinating to me how public interest in wacky nutritional/medical supplements seems to increase dramatically in times of financial unrest. A lack of critical thinking combined with desperation as families try to cope with lost income often make a juicy target for a scam. Conventional (read: effective) treatments become unaffordable and people will look anywhere as long as they think (or a charistmatic person convinces them) that they're helping. I've personally heard anecdotes from a few people who would never have turned to this industry, except that they couldn't afford medicine or treatment, and they felt that doing something is always better than doing nothing. Unfortunately, cases like the Blue Man demonstrate that this is not so. The only people who continuously end up more healthy than they started off is the scammer, and that's financial health I'm talking.

If you end up in a conversation with someone who distrusts any pharma drug, but will pop any untested supplament in their mouths, try hitting them with this knowledge:

Clinical trials for drugs can cost up to $1 million per day to test safety and efficacy of their product. This cost also commonly extends for years after approval of the drug due to long-term safety study. If, on the box of a supplmental product, this statement appears: "These claims have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration", then that means that they spent $0.
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complete aurasols!
written by bigdoggy, November 12, 2009
I just saw a news item on Rhinos being killed by poachers for their horns to make so-called medicines. Again, this is so that someone can get rich at the expense of the gullible but also, in this, case, at the expense of the Rhino and everyone else. A further reminder that "where's the harm" needs to be challenged.
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Woo in the pharmacy...
written by Gaius Cornelius, November 12, 2009
On a visit to a branch of “Boots” – a leading pharmacy chain in the UK – I noticed a box of copper bracelets offered for sale near the checkout. I periodically need to pick up prescriptions and it took a couple of visits for me to be served by a pharmacist who did not look overly busy: I then took the opportunity to ask a couple of questions about these bracelets.

Not yet having totally lost faith in the profession of pharmacist, what I fully expected was a roll of the eyes and something to the effect of “we have to sell these because some people like to buy them” followed by an affable exchange of views on evidence based medicine.

I was not a little shocked by what the pharmacist actually said: she was sure that some people find them beneficial and then launched into a low-key sales pitch listing the symptoms for which they might be beneficial and did I wish to buy one. Taken aback, I explained that “No” I was not interested thank you and, with an awkward choice of words, that actually I was rather “offended” by the sale of such things in a pharmacy. I was assured that studies had show that the bracelets could be beneficial; no, she could not tell me exactly where to find this information, but she was quite sure!

I used to imagine that the profession of pharmacist was a reservoir of critical thinking and that pharmacists were individually and collectively highly embarrassed at being obliged to sell all manner of quackery on behalf of their employers. My less than scientific sample of one instance has left me a little depressed to think just how bad thinks are, or might get, in this vital branch of medicine.
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Homeopathic bothers me more...
written by Otto, November 12, 2009
Magnet therapy is mostly benign. The claims that most people believe its effective for are highly prone to placebo effect to begin with, and also tend to be fairly untreatable conditions to begin with. So their use doesn't really hurt anybody too much. I doubt there's a lot of people putting off necessary surgery because they think magnets will cure them.

People poisoning themselves with metal toxins is more harmful, but at the same time you can't eliminate the wacko fringe. Just shake your head at them and walk away. If it wasn't metals (which are mostly useless instead of deadly), then it'd just be something else.

The harm done by homeopathic placebos is far worse than this, because these take the actual form of real treatments. These can cause people to put off actual medicine to the point where damage is done. Homeopathy has actually killed people.

So I say we must pick our battles here. Focus on the really dangerous stuff, as it's pointless to argue with the lunatic fringe. Anyway, they're only good for laughs. smilies/smiley.gif
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Woo in the pharmacy
written by Bellerophon, November 12, 2009
Gaius has a common misconception of pharmacists in the UK. My experience of them has led me to the view that they are just glorified grocers.
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Maybe so but...
written by Jefoid, November 12, 2009
I agree with your basic point about picking the right battles; but I think this is one worth fighting. At a minimum, magnets in particular are "gateway woo". These things are everywhere and I think the more people see them out there unchallenged, the more people will come to the conclusion that there must be actual research behind them. (The pharmacist did!) I terms of metals as supplements, I hear a local idiot chiropractor hawking this stuff every Saturday morning on the radio. There is plenty to lose if this is not countered.
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on homeopathy
written by cthulhu_4_president, November 12, 2009
I completely agree with Jefoid, but can see where Otto is coming from. Homeopathy is a school of learning whose only objective is to be contrary to 'allopathic' medicine. I read a great piece awhile ago that described the cult-like atmosphere of homeopathy as deifying the inane, such that critical thought not only becomes unfashionable; it becomes the enemy. With the combative stance that it takes against science-based medicines, and the doctors who prescribe them, it is easy to single out homeopathy as a large, if not the largest, threat to people who simply want to get better.

However, any treatment available to consumers that does not require the burden of proof all have the potential to be dangerous. While Otto may be correct in that probably not too many people have put off their chemo for magnet therapy, this is not something we can say for sure, and if even one person has become hurt or died because they chose magnet therapy instead of something that would work, then that is one person too many. In this light, it is very likely that magnet therapy has killed people also, and this is why the mindset of "what's-the-harm?" must be fought passionately at any opportunity. I enjoyed the analogy of magnets as 'gateway woo', as every woo product out there merely re-enforces the non-critical mindset that a consumer may have and, arguably, makes them that much more likely to not think critically in a key moment.

Incidentally, readers should check out whatstheharm.net. They have an entire section on colloidal silver treatments and other things that we wouldn't think would be directly harmful at first glance. The physical and financial suffering that these industries cause people is very real.
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...
written by Otara, November 12, 2009
Magnet therapy actually has been claimed to have been successful for curing cancer, as google will show.

So it is fairly important to get the idea out there that it doesnt even do anything for minor illnesses, let alone serious ones.
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Gold and Titanium
written by JonK, November 12, 2009
The very inertness of elemental gold which classifies it as a "noble metal" makes it a dubious choice as a useful anti-oxidant in the body--or anywhere else. I suspect the writers of the Optimox site are confusing the inert nature of gold towards oxidation (one reason that some audio connectors are gold plated)with materials that retard oxidation of other species (an anti-oxidant, like Vitamin C).

Titanium, in the form of white titanium dioxide, is not only a pigment in paints, but is also used as a whitening opacifier in many package foodstuffs. So if you want to get your daily requirement of titanium (whatever that may be), having a sandwich made with StarKist Sandwich-Ready Tuna Salad may be a less expensive and tastier choice than whatever the Phiten folks are hawking.
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Silver Mis-Information, Lowly rated comment [Show]
@Phd.Hyper D
written by Dooyoowoowoo, November 12, 2009
Science doctor? In a parallel universe maybe. Your barely comprehensible ramblings are becoming a bore.
Please cite the trial data for the rubbish you have stated above. No anecdotal "results" thank you.
Here ends my troll feeding.
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written by outsorcerer, November 12, 2009
@Phd.Hyper D

Not only is is the nonsense you're spewing outright wrong, it's dangerous too.

My father eschewed (against my firm disagreement) radiological treatments for his adenocarcinoma in 2003, preferring instead to take vitamins and supplements, and silver. With proper (read: radiological) treatment the median life expectancy is 2-4 years, with small chances for cure.

My father was dead in 5 months at the age 49....and we caught it early.

Peddle your nonsense elsewhere, or, rather, do the world a favor and quit setting us back to the dark ages peddling nonsensical alchemy and quackery as "medicine."



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written by MadScientist, November 12, 2009
I wouldn't complain too much about colloidal gold since the metal form doesn't react very well with anything (although as pointed out, soluble compounds of gold are toxic). As for colloidal silver - I certainly wouldn't recommend ingesting it. Although most of the products will be water insoluble (and so hopefully pass right through), it can also form soluble compounds and they are rather toxic. I'm surprised the blue guy lived to tell his story. Silver nitrate is still used to treat a number of conditions (such as killing some types of fungus) and you certainly don't want to drink that stuff.

As for titanium - it sure turns a gorgeous blue color when you oxidize the surface under the right conditions. It's just another metal though (a very reactive metal at that) - but at least there don't seem to be any serious problems which come up due to skin contact with titanium; after all it is used for jewelry. I have one peculiar use for titanium - rather than cure all ills it gives some people a headache and an upset stomach. I just go up to any number of buddies with machine shops and say "Hey, I've got a job for you - it's a pretty complex piece and it involves machining titanium." One guy still hasn't forgiven me for handing him a titanium billet and saying it was aluminum ... everyone else thought it was funny though.

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written by GeekGoddess, November 13, 2009
According to the medical literature I researched, colloidal silver can collect in the organs. Elemental silver is reactive and is dangerous to injest, although as mentioned silver nitrate is used for treating conjunctivitis in newbornas. It is not safe to ingest. Gold is non-reactive. Indeed, gold foil is sold in speciality shops to use for decorating food that will be consumed, and there is a liquor available that contains tiny gold flakes. However, it does not 'cure' anything and certainly the evidence is that it does not provide immortality.

Titanium is pretty benigh - the MSDS safety sheets list NO hazards from drinking, inhaling, or contact. However, it also doesn't improve your performance, keep you from tiring, or make you smarter if you spray a solution on your head.

As to the Blue Man, in an interview in early 2008, he stated that he had not been to a doctor in over ten years, so no one knows the extent of organ damage that he has
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part 1
written by MadScientist, November 13, 2009
OK, since Naomi invited comments on the Optiscam (or was that Optipox?) thing:

"Colloidal gold possesses a negative charge at the surface of the particles and absorbs strongly to other molecules without changing their chemical and biological properties"

No, colloidal gold would possess no negative charge at the surface unless it was actively charged (and the charge would dissipate soon after you remove the charging device). The grammar is all screwy so I can't make any sense of the rest of that sentence. I think they're saying that the gold will stick to surfaces - this is true. For example, dip your finger in colloidal gold and you'll have a nice black mark which is not all that easy to wash off. Yes, true colloidal gold will appear black rather than gold.

"On the other hand, gold salts contain positively charged gold that forms strong chemical bond with other compounds normally present in the body and change their properties. This causes toxic reactions in the body because the immune system does not recognize these gold salts' complexes as self."

100% pure bull. The claim of "positively charged gold" is really not quite correct even though the bonds are ionic (as in gold chloride or gold cyanide). The gold has a very high reduction potential and so is extremely reactive; the gold will react and totally screw up the usual chemical reactions in your body. The claims of "toxic reactions because the immune system does not recognize these gold salts' complexes as self" is 100% nonsense. I can substitute any number of reactive metals to achieve toxic effects - even metals which are normally found in the body and are essential to cellular function.

"Gold salts are currently used in the treatment of rheumatoid arthritis" I'm not aware of any such treatments; as a chemist I can't imagine such treatments as being anything more than woo-woo because I can't imagine how rheumatoid arthritis can be ameliorated by poisoning cells.

"Colloidal metallic gold has been used since antiquity as a remedy for revitalization, rejuvenation and to improve memory and mental alertness." I'm not aware of any such use, but even if true such claims would have been woo-woo back then too.

"There is some evidence that colloidal gold formed in the body after administration of gold salt is the active ingredient in the treatment of RA and the side effects are caused by the gold salt themselves, which interfere with the beneficial effects of the colloidal gold."

Really? What evidence? What is the mechanism by which the gold works its magic?

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part 2
written by MadScientist, November 13, 2009
"Such colloids enhance the effects of antioxidants by catalyzing electron transfer in oxidation-reduction reaction."

Absolute nonsense. Although some finely divided metals (platinum, nickel, rhodium) are used as a catalyst in industrial reactors, the mechanism is to provide a substrate which facilitates the decomposition of a molecule (such as hydrogen) into atoms which can then readily react with the other chemical; such catalysts will not speed up just any reaction. What such reactions does Optipox claim are catalyzed by gold? *ALL* chemical reactions are oxidation-reduction reactions (well, maybe not if you consider transmutation or nuclear decay as chemical reactions) so that phrase is quite meaningless. Now what is an antioxidant? The phrase is perhaps most widely used in the food industry (well, the legitimate use anyway - the woo industry seems to use the term more frequently in public) - an antioxidant is simply a chemical which slows down the oxidation of another chemical by competing in the oxidation reactions. For example, vegetable (and animal) oil goes rancid when it is oxidized by the oxygen in air. If you add an antioxidant to the oil, the antioxidant must be more reactive with air than the vegetable oil. The result would be that the antioxidant scavenges much (never all) of the oxgygen which permeates the oil and a significant amount of the antioxidant would have to be destroyed by these reactions before the oil turns noticeably rancid - so the oil turns rancid at a later date - congratulations, you have extended its shelf life (which is precisely the intent when the food industry employs an antioxidant). Living cells contain a variety of chemicals and some will act as antioxidants - but what do antioxidants accomplish in living cells? If you're in step with the woo-woo they eliminate "free radicals". Well, even the claim to eliminate free radicals is not true. Free radicals are quite reactive and will pretty much react with whatever they first encounter - and most of the time that isn't an "antioxidant". Formation and destruction of free radicals occurs in all your living cell tissue all the time and consuming "antioxidants" doesn't have any significant impact whatsoever over those reactions in your cells - the antioxidants would kill you before you got enough in there to have a significant effect on those damned free radicals. Your cells do contain small amounts of "peroxidases" - chemicals which catalytically destroy peroxides. Peroxides are formed all the time in natural cellular reactions; they are very reactive although much less reactive than free radicals (although they often break up to form these free radicals) and ultimately these reactive chemicals are toxic to cells. However your cells already have what it takes to survive - funny that - not that you could have possibly evolved if your cells didn't develop with these handy chemicals. Can you enhance these cellular reactions (destruction of peroxides)? No. Is there anything to be gained by being able to enhance these reactions? No. So all those tea advertisements and things which you see spruiking antioxidants - they're all 100% woo-woo.

"Since colloidal gold concentrates in certain cells of the body ..."

Ah - no, that doesn't happen. The gold does not pass through the cell membranes and into the cells. In fact, colloidal gold won't even get into your bloodstream unless you injected it into your veins. If you drank it, it may persist in the numerous creases in your alimentary tract for a very long period of time (some particles may be stuck in you for the rest of your life) but it's not going to get into any of your cells.

"The gold particle sizes of Aurasol® are below 20 billionths of a meter (
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loong comments
written by MadScientist, November 13, 2009
Aw, this thing with limiting comment length has resulted in the last little bit of my comment being lost to the ether. I'm too sleepy to attempt to reproduce it. smilies/sad.gif I like the claim about "nutritional supplement" - how can a substance with no nutritional value (gold) be a nutritional supplement? I also have to laugh at the mock journals those whackos come up with "Journal of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine" - what a joke. In the long tradition of confidence tricksters, they are taking some words from legitimate sciences in order to create the impression that they are legitimate. Aurasol, Yourasol, Everyone'sasol - what's the difference?
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written by GeekGoddess, November 13, 2009
thanks for the comments, MadScientist. For anyone with a bit of chemistry, or biology, or common sense, it's all BS. I have some processes in my particular field that use iron solutions in a redox equation, but I have forgotten the chemistry. We use platinum as a catalyst, but it is not consumed.
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written by Fredjo, November 13, 2009
It seems to me that if these supplements and woo-gadgets are only providing a level of relief akin to the Placebo Effect, then no real harm is being committed. Why is everyone so quick to spoil anothers delusions? If someone truly believes they are getting relief from arthritis by wearing a Q-Ray bracelet, let them enjoy it. After all, they paid their $50 and believe it to be a good deal. Everybody wins. The Q-Ray manufacturer makes money, and the buyer believes they receive some relief.

As I understand it, the Placebo Effect requires the belief/expection that the woo-gadget/pill will work while exspressly forbidding insight into its true nature.

If people could somehow knowingly induce the Placebo Effect for whatever ailment they may have, then maybe there would be case against the woo-industry.

Let me say, that I my opinion stated thus far takes a 180 degree turn when talking about life threatening conditions that can be improved upon by real medicine. In those cases, anyone selling quackery as an alternative to clinically developed pharmaceuticals, who by the manufacture and sale of woo, endager people's lives, ought to be drawn and quartered.
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written by Caller X, November 13, 2009
written by GeekGoddess, November 13, 2009
...For anyone with a bit of chemistry...

We use platinum as a catalyst, but it is not consumed.


"But"? Sounds like you're unclear on what a catalyst is. Might want to check with someone "with a bit of chemistry".
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written by MadScientist, November 13, 2009
@Caller X: Maybe GeekGoddess meant the platinum wasn't eaten? The catalysts in industrial reactors are eventually lost or 'poisoned' and need to be replaced or regenerated so although they can aid in a reaction a huge number of times, they don't last forever. The loss is primarily a mechanical thing - the metal particles are incredibly small yet somehow need to be bound to a substrate so they simply don't blow away or wash away, but they do eventually work free.
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Emotional Beatings, Lowly rated comment [Show]
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written by MadScientist, November 13, 2009
@Hyper D: No one is interested in your whining - if you have proof of your ridiculous claims, let the world see it.
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written by outsorcerer, November 13, 2009
@Hyper D--

I simply stated a fact...do I have some emotion behind it? Absolutely. But don't come back and try to peddle nonsense on top of nonsense.

If you want me to embarass you, by debunking the nonsense you're spouting, point by point, I'll be more than happy to. You have no clue what you're talking about, and 99% of what you are talking about is directly contradicted by science. In a lab setting I can back up every one of my claims, you, conversely, can back up almost none of yours.

...and your defense to that charge seems to be ".. has its roots in hyperdimension"

Roots in hyperdimension??? Are you freaking kidding me? What moronic nonsense are you talking about now? There's no need to charcter assassinate you...you do it to yourself..."hyperdimensional"....LMAO.
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Sorcery
written by Phd.Hyper D, November 14, 2009
Sorcery is in the name of a responder here and responder does not seem to understand sorcery ,or the hyperdimensional process that is sorcery,or shamanism ,or just your favorite village psychic.Whats up with that? Or is it just a play on words for outsourcing.
Im just a guy who has a Doctorate in Hyperdimensional Physics,so us kind of guys understand the mechanics of each of those previously mentioned processes,without being any of those"kind" of folks.
Also in the hyperdimensional field is the structure of the universe,where all of the "Glue" is hyperdimensional.
The responders of my responses are obviously just a bunch of the tier three boys I speak to,(Not directly) in recognition of their very carefully orchestrated educational mission,yet do not mission with any decorum at all,so obviously not actual science qualified and incapable of searching and assimilating and making logical conclusions on their own.
The condition I speak to when you boys seem to fit the mold everywhere on these forums of an anti-science tasker. Now here we go,how could I possibly say that to such able scientists??? Its simple,the statement I make elsewhere is that you "NEVER,EVER,EVER DREAM BY YOURSELF" and to those with my particular science tasking,is just Junior Class,to get the lecture off to a start.
Have a great time with your dreams fellahs,and with a tone put into your brain to raise your penis for you in the early A.M,same dream feeder,same robotic process that you do not have a choice but to adhere to, I have a choice,try and stop your protocoler if you think you are allowed to have your independence.
I check science sites to see if there are any of our conscious boys out there,none here. Bye Now.
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@ Phd.Hyper D
written by outsorcerer, November 14, 2009
@ Phd.Hyper D

A doctorate in "Hyperdimensinal Physics?" Hmmm...please, do tell us what university offers that program...

..and yes, my screen name is a play on words...just not the way you think...

As for the rest of your meandering ridiculousness, horrendous grammar aside, I am most assuredly not "anti-science" That would be you...the rambling drivel you post has no basis in fact and is no closer to science than astrology.

If you don't like me being "in your face" about you being absolutely full of it, I suggest you quiet me with a scientific demonstration of what you are claiming (which, of course, you can't and won't)...in the meantime I'll continue to point out that you are a loon, and not lose any sleep while doing it.

"Bye now"
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written by Dooyoowoowoo, November 16, 2009
I googlerised Hyperdimensional physics. My head hurts now, here's what it's all about
http://www.halexandria.org/dward237.htm
And it's a gold mine of drivel. It's just the usual "see an idea from reputable science, misunderstand and regurgitate with mystic conatations" junk.
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written by ThinkTank, November 16, 2009
I'd also like to know where you sign up for the Hyperdimensional Physics course. My bet is on the blue police box that just appeared in the corner of the room smilies/grin.gif
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written by GeekGoddess, November 16, 2009
@Fredjo - the "harm" is that people will waste money on things that will do them no good and possibly hurt them. It may also keep them from seeking legitimate treatment. For 'what's the harm' - check out the excellent web site www.whatstheharm.net

@Caller X - I'm not in the least confused about what catalysts do. The platinum in the processes I work with is not consumed (reacted) with anything. It is not used up, although sometimes it must be cleaned or reactivated. This is different than something, say, a sacrificial anode on a cathodic protection system, where the anode *is* consumed over time and must be replaced.
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written by Caller X, November 16, 2009
@GeekGoddess

I'm not in the least confused about what catalysts do. The platinum in the processes I work with is not consumed (reacted) with anything.
followed:

We use platinum as a catalyst, but it is not consumed.


Ah, so it's not chemistry you are lacking, but composition and reading. I commend once again to your attention your use of the word "but". It implies that in other cases a catalyst may be consumed. Weak as water, Captain Peacock, and may I say I am unanimous in that.

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written by GeekGoddess, November 16, 2009
@caller x: Those two comments did not immediately follow each other.

We use platinum as a catalyst in our process.

We do not consume any catalyst in our process.

I hope you feel better for having pointed out unclear wording in response to various comments. I look forward to your SWIFT submissions.

I'm not sure who "we" are but glad you are all in agreement. Not much of a friend of British sitcoms, myself.
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Make it punnishable
written by zike, November 16, 2009
I think that the big step could be done by categorizing such claims as against the law. If claims like "magnets can heal your body" are punishable by the law, than I think many wouldn't dare to sell and cheat people. This IS cheating, and therefore against the law. And don't say that it would be impossible to track these sites. If we can track pedophiles down, why would it be impossible to do the same for homeopathy? I think that law needs to make it clear what is against the law and what is not. If astrology is not proven to do what it says, don't allow someone to earn for living by practicing it. The same applies to homeopathy. I don't care what people believe in their own houses, and what they teach their children as long as it doesn't interfere with my life, but we need to stop anyone using such beliefs to get an advantage of some people. Simply to say: To cheat. I understand that it would be hard to set criteria to test extraordinary claims, but hey, Randi has a great test. If you can win a million, you are allowed to sell your extraordinary claims for living. If not, get bent with your false claims. An astronomer can prove that the Earth is not flat, Dawkins has evidence that the evolution is real, a chemistry scientist always gets water when combines two hydrogen atoms to a single oxygen atom, and so they are allowed to do their job for living. They do good and do no harm. They don't make extraordinary claims, they are proven to work.
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Some progress
written by RobbieD, November 17, 2009
Recently here in Europe there has been some progress in making manufacturers actually have some hard evidence for beneficial effects claimed for things like supplements and 'enhanced foods'. So far the claims of yoghurt manufacturers have been tested, and all have been thrown out. Those adverts you may see that certain yoghurt can lower cholesterol have now all been rendered illegal - you can no longer make that claim over here as it was found that the research the manufacturers were using to back up their 'health promoting' products was found to be seriously wanting.

From now on if you want to make a claim for a health benefit of a product you have to make that claim first to the authorities and provide the evidence to back it up. The evidence will then be assessed for scientific credence, and if it does not stack up you will not be allowed to claim the benefit for the product. Now this is progress, and a good bit of government that has come out of Brussels.
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written by Caller X, November 17, 2009
@GeekGoddess
Those two comments did not immediately follow each other.

We use platinum as a catalyst in our process.

We do not consume any catalyst in our process.

I hope you feel better for having pointed out unclear wording in response to various comments. I look forward to your SWIFT submissions.


Thank you. I do indeed feel splendid, and I sleep the sleep of the just.

Just to be clear, you do understand that "but it is not consumed" in "We use platinum as a catalyst, but it is not consumed" is ridiculous because a catalyst by definition is not consumed, do you not?

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written by GeekGoddess, November 17, 2009
@CallerX



Just to be clear, you do understand that "but it is not consumed" in "We use platinum as a catalyst, but it is not consumed" is ridiculous because a catalyst by definition is not consumed, do you not?


I do indeed, and if you read all of my stuff, you will see that I corrected my WORDING so that it was clear. I think you are perhaps the only one that thought I did not, but that's why we are all here, to learn. Now that I look at the wording on an actual computer, rather than on my iPhone screen, I realize I intended to write in the second line of my comment "We do not consume any platinum in our process."

Alas, I only have 50 hours of chemistry in college, and so am not an expert,and I pointed that out. However, in designing chemical processing facilities, utilizing my chemical engineering degree, I actually do research, specify, recommend, and purchase catalyst for the processes we design and operate.
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Don't give them search engine juice!
written by Julián Rodriguez Orihuela, November 18, 2009
You can use the rel="nofollow" attribute on the links if you don't want to give extra search engine points to the scam websites.
I recommend you add that attribute to all external links that go to woo sites.
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My thoughts on heavy metal therapy
written by skywolf, November 28, 2009
I had an indecent in high school with silver nitrate, I turned a good portion of my hand purple for a month and realized the practical joke possibilities within .02 seconds after doing so ... smilies/grin.gif as for a titanium band i might consider it for a wedding ring cause it's an awesome metal i mean f14 tomcats are made of the stuff light weight almost unbreakable ... thinking of the insurance commercial where the guy drops it down the food dispenser ... smilies/shocked.gif broken food dispenser and the wedding band is okay smilies/cheesy.gif
the best actual heavy metal theripy can be had through Metallica amon amarth or if you are so inclined Alice cooper smilies/wink.gif
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Last Updated on Thursday, 12 November 2009 11:04