We received this from a reader who is concerned about the use of the so-called electronic dowsing rods in his country, Thailand…
My name is Tuang Cheevatadavirut. I'm a freshly graduated student in MBA/MSIS (Master of Science in Information Systems) at Iowa State University. I saw your blog comment on the arrest of James McCormick, so I’d like to tell you about GT200 use in Thailand. This is a device similar to the ADE 651, Quadro Tracker, M.O.L.E., HEDD1, Sniffex (Plus), Alpha 6, PSD-22, and H3Tec, etc. I want to give you all the possible names of the device, given that government agencies in many countries – Pakistan, Iraq, UK, Mexico, Dubai, Kenya, Tanzania, Philippines, Lebanon, Jordan, China, Afghanistan, and possibly India – have been employing this kind of bogus device. Not only does it put innocent citizens at risk, but also the security forces’ personnel, be it militia men or police.
Randi: Tuang, there are many more than the eight you list, believe me. These fake devices are on sale all over the world, and those who sell them are doing very well, I can assure you!
These days there are many insurgencies that occur in southern Thailand daily. Innocent citizens as well as security forces’ personnel are losing their lives. To counter such incidents, many government agencies have ordered the GT200. Even though in the past weeks there have been claims that the device is bogus, the Thai Central Forensic Science Institute, the Provincial Electricity Authority and military agencies such as the Royal Thai Army, the Royal Thai Air Force's Directorate of Armaments, the Naval Ordnance Department, and the Royal Thai Navy, have defended their use and the effectiveness of such devices.
Concerned by the use of this bogus device, Dr. Jetsada Denduangboripan, a representative of the Thai science community, has been in the forefront of debunking such devices with the help of Meirion Jones from the BBC's Newsnight program. Jones has debunked this kind of device, specifically the ADE-651, as used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Fortunately, the Thai media seem to take interest in this subject. There are many talk shows inviting Dr. Jetsada as well as government personnel who support the use of GT200, to appear. Furthermore, Dr. Jetsada has mocked such devices by making a JD300, JD being his initials, at a cost of less than $5. You can see this here.
Randi: Start watching this video at 2:21 and you’ll see just how naïve the soldiers are in demonstrating such a device. At 2:32 you see that they have only one object – identified in advance as an explosive! – and they merely show that the freely-swiveling rod will point at it! If they’d had 10 boxes, one of which contained an explosive, and had been asked to determine in which box that was, they’d have obtained 10% success…! You’ll see Dr. Jetsada using a wrench, a hinge, and a rod to show how easily the thing can be exposed.
The government representatives have opposed to termination of the use of such device saying that even though the device might not be working 100% – depending on the operator’s health and faith in the said device – it does help to keep the security forces’ morale high. In my opinion, the dependence on the operator basically means “if it does not work, blame the operator, not the device.” The representatives say that working without the device would make the security forces feel vulnerable. It looks like the device is not only just a tool, but also a sacred talisman, a very pricey talisman. It is, as the price of the bogus device sold to Thailand is $27,000 while the complete set, the device plus 21 “sensor cards,” is as much as $36,000. In addition, the figures show that so far the Thai authority has bought 535 GT200s or about $19,260,000 worth. Well, Iraq has bought many of ADE-651 devices that costs them $85 million. I guess we are not in as bad a situation as they are.
Even though the government representatives admitted that the device has no electronic parts inside and is less than reliable, Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, a notable and respectful pathologist as well as the director of the Central Institute of Forensic Science, Ministry of Justice, insists that the device works 100%. False positives or false negatives are at work here. Both the representatives and Dr. Pornthip keep on employing the device to initially scout an area, a vehicle, or a potential suspect followed by the use of Smith Sabre 4000, Fido Explosives Detector, or both.
Randi: Again, we offer our million-dollar prize to the Director if he can make the device – or any other dowsing device – work. Why is he not in touch with us, I wonder…? I’m willing to jump over to Thailand to conduct such a test, but no one has asked me… Back to Tuang:
The following is from Wikipedia: The Thai press has condemned the GT200 for having "given wrong readings on several occasions and even failed to detect explosive materials, resulting in the loss of life." However, Thailand's Democratic Party Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban has asserted that the GT200 actually works and that it is not necessary to establish a committee to study its effectiveness. [The] Deputy Prime Minister has tried to reassure MPs that the GT200 is not like the ADE651: "We use a different brand," he said.
Randi: Here is yet again another qualified – and confident – applicant for the million dollars! Why is our phone so silent…?
This, even though there are news reports of the military saying that the procurement of such a device “would be halted” if the device is proven to be ineffective. So far there has been no scientific investigation into such a device by the military. A double blind test would be nice. Thai PM Abhisit previously said that to counter the problem of operator’s health condition, the government agency will buy a different brand that requires a battery.
Well, the most recent update says that the PM has been in touch with Dr. Jetsada and now says that the credibility of BBC news is reliable. So the PM will bring this issue into his cabinet meeting. His earlier announcement of procuring a battery version was based only on a short report sent to him and he didn’t check on more info beforehand. That’s good news. I’m crossing my fingers.
Well, I’m writing this to you as the device could create false assumption that could harm innocents as well as the security forces employing such devices around the world. Selling such a bogus tool for detecting bombs at a steep price is unjust and appalling. In addition, Thai Veteran Day is this Wednesday, February 3rd, and I thought that if you could post a comment on this issue, not specifically to Thailand, but for all countries around the world before this Wednesday, that’d be awesome! I do appreciate your time going over this email.
Randi: Well, Tuang, I regret that we were unable to get this item up in time, but it may well reach a number of persons in authority who may react correctly to T’s comments…
You can buy a lot of bomb-sniffing dogs for $36K. Smarter than your average politician, they don't require sensor cards or batteries. They run just fine on Kibbles and Bits.
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How big is this scam? written by Zoroaster,
February 04, 2010
It's quite an eye-opener to see how widespread the gullibility is. How does someone get to such a high military or political position with no grasp of critical thinking? Why can't the scammers just market these things as gold detectors or something and prey on the greedy instead of endangering lives? A water witch might believe in his own deception but the producers of these devices obviously know they are useless and that people are going to die because of their deception.
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... written by Crocoduck,
February 04, 2010
The oxymoron "military intelligence" comes to mind...
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... written by skyhand,
February 04, 2010
Are these machines being used at airports? If true, I hope the bad guys think they work.
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Effectiveness written by GusGus,
February 04, 2010
That's the only way that these things can be effective. If the bad guys think they work, they might be be reluctant to attempt a bombing. .
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... written by kenhamer,
February 04, 2010
@skyhand
The TSA is using their own verion of magic, in the form of paper strips they wave over beverages to determine if the beverage is explosive.
I have seen these devices being used In Mexico on aircraft bound for the US. On multiple occasions I have seen uniformed soldiers circle airplanes with these dousing devices. Surprisingly they never found anything.
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... written by Stargazer9915,
February 05, 2010
These devices should be called "Homeopathic Explosive Detectors". They are really as useless as the name implies.
Unfortunately, thousands of deaths will not deter the 'true believers'.
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One more way in which these devices harm written by usefkl05,
February 05, 2010
These very same GT200 dowsing rods do not only harm by leaving bombs undetected. According to this article http://nationmultimedia.com/20...121721.php from The Nation newspaper from Bangkok, use of this useless toy also result in people being sent to forced education camp for four months.
At the end of the article they note that if the device points to some innocent bystander, then the geniuses of the Thai army assume the guy must have been involved in some kind of bomb making activity! Way to go!
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... written by palmbook,
February 06, 2010
This is just a tip of the iceberg. Superstitions are very widespread in Thailand. There are two root causes. First is the fact that many Thais are uneducated. These people live with under $2000 a year, face with a lot of debt, and barely get to the sixth grade in the school. They are very gullible. The second is that Thai culture has a strong belief in spiritualism. Scammers simply take the advantage of this fact, throw in a twist that sounds right, and ta-da, you get a lot of followers. Even a good chunk of educated people falls for this.
For example, many Thais believe that there exists an unknown substance that criminals often use on victims. The victims will then obey anything the criminals command. It has been proven that no such thing exists, and there exists evidence that the unknown substance is often used just to disguise the fact - that the victims were tricked into surrender their valuables to con-artists!!! They blame on the unknown substance to save their faces only. However, if you say to Thais, even educated ones, that such drug doesn't exist, you might be surprised to see people defending their belief to death, with great anger.
Anyway, I'm really glad to see your response about GT200. We are fighting hard on this issue, and we really appreciate your help. I hope that one day I'll have an opportunity and enough resource to fight these scams and superstitions in my country.
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... written by vino,
February 07, 2010
With some parts from an old radio and two plastic coat hangers I have developed a device which identifies corrupt politicians. It works 100% of the time. I am considering applying for the Randi million dollar prize...
Dear James Randi written by Tong,
February 07, 2010
Hello James, please don't be so curious why no one called you to claim million by proving GT200 is effective. I'm Thai. To explain this, i would like to refer to MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) and some background on Thai Democratic party.
Thai Democratic Party, though it name so called democratic, is consist of ultra right wing, nationalist and royalist. Most of supporters are right brain thinker so much concern in moral. They thinking that being rich is evil (so called sufficient economy). To be rich, we need intelligence, opportunity and do things efficiently. As they think being rich is bad. They keeps people from that Thai should be poor, hopeless and uneducated. So people moral remain high.
When came to MBTI, Democrat party and supporters mostly are ENF, EN, EF or NF (Extrovert, iNtuition and Feeling).
Type E is so concern about look. We have PM that want to be on TV everyday. Yeah, our PM has his TV program and It's on air everyday. Yet, he claiming that doing so not compromise PM duty.
Type N is using instinct to make decision. For purchasing, instead of consider about product, fact sheet or scientific claim, they tend to judge seller. If seller looks trustworthy, product should working fine.
Type F is using Feeling instead rational thinking when making decision.
Currently, Thai is govern by ENF people. They afraid to lose face when making mistakes. They unable to perceive information and rationalize it. You might know the result by now.
Only few choices they have 1. Admit that they purchase fake devices which would lose their face and make people across the world know that the country is govern by stupid. 2. Blaming purchaser for corruption which harm their high moral royalist government's look. 3. Suppressing media, force Thai people stop talking about the topic. Blame them for stir conflict or compromise country unity.
(Dean of university that Dr. Jetsada Denduangboripan working for, is forcing him to make public apologize about his action.)
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... written by cocobronco,
February 11, 2010
simple reason people
year prime minister price/unit unit purchased 2005 Taksin 570 $ 4 2006 Surayut 2000 $ 500 2009 Apisit 40000 $ 2000
GT200 selling company is Avia Satcom Co.,Ltd. 174/60-61 Viphawadi Road, Don Muang,Bangkok 10210 Thailand The director of the company is Mr. Suthep Duangchinda. The funny thing is Mr.Suthep is assemblyman (party list)from People democratic party. But the funniest, prime minister Apisit is People democratic party leader. enjoy
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Cultural challenge written by jybkk,
February 15, 2010
What some of the commentators here are doing here is trying to turn this topic into a political argument. I've been living in Thailand for a while but am not Thai, therefore I haven't any preference for this government or another.
I've been sending some letters to a national newspaper for several month, after I read about the GT200 for the first time in their publication. They published my letters but continued to report through quotes from the different people involved, mostly those who decided to buy this device.
Today, however, news look better since a test has been conducted on sunday. The details of the test protocol were not accessible in english but it looked like a proper double-blind one. A thai blog is reporting about it: www.gt200.org Now, the "face-saving" dance as resumed, and the exact results of the test still not disclosed.
Regardless of which side decided to buy this device, this is closely related to several aspects of the Thai culture: 1. The face-saving: when someone important makes a mistake, "politeness" tells you that you should let them to exit in an honorable way. Unfortunately, this results in a complete unaccountability of these "phuyai" (important people in Thailand) who very quickly tend to think they actually are always right, since everybody says so. This explains the amazing state of denial the army generals are in now, even when confronted to evidences such as the BBC report. Many "exit strategies" have been used so far, but none was really convincing. There was the "this is not the same brand as the one showed on BBC", then "It is better than nothing", and more recently "We can't open the device to figure out how it works because we signed a non-disclosure agreement when we bought the device". The Thai media, of course, apply this rule and I've very rarely seen a journalist asking an unwanted question.
2. The importance of superstition: Thai people live in a culture where superstition take a great part. Most of them believe in the predictions from astrologists and are not ashamed of it. This includes educated industrials and political figures. Ghost are part of the everyday life (and appear in a good third of the thai movies) and it is not uncommon to meet someone explaining you that they actually met some ghosts. Interestingly, when discussion goes further, they might admit that they know their belief is a bit silly, but "please, let me go with it, I like to believe that".
3. Last, but not least: The corruption. Corruption happens at every level of the Thai society, regardless (once more) of the political side. Polls show that it is a widely accepted practice, believed to "make business smoother". Most of thai people assume it is actually like that everywhere, and don't believe me when I say that in most of western countries, trying to slip a banknote to the policeman who's giving you a fine will most likely bring you to jail and a lot of trouble. Any project, on any level, is subject to this disease: delay, senseless decision and poor manufacturing quality will irremediably occur.
Those 3 points explain easily why such a situation can occur. I must admit that the manufacturers of these devices have mastered the art of manipulating such cultural specificities. They organize a spectacular demonstration in presence of some of the highest and greediest officers. Share the kickbacks with them and let them try to cover up the whole story themselves. I'm convinced that it could have been done under any of the government Thailand had known.
Hopefully, tomorrow, the results of the tests will be disclosed. It will be very interesting to see what is the conclusion and what are the reactions to it. My guess would be that tests will be declared "inconclusive" and further testing postponed until the topic is not so hot anymore.
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GT-200 Test result written by Tong,
February 15, 2010
Government refuse to test some cases and want to compromise test constraints. For example; - Want to reduce total boxes used in testing from 6 boxes to 4 boxes. Random guess still got 25% chance to detect the bomb. Because of this they want to - Omit case that has no bomb in any box. - instead of display result live while testing. They chose to conceal test result. The test results were claimed to be keep in very safe place. No one know the result up until now. High chance that the result would be swap with fake one. (It's the same tactic that they using in election. No vote count in front of public. That's why they refuse participation of UN while election was made last time)
P.S. Personally, I believe that the test result would show that GT-200 is mildly effective or very effective (As the result would be swap with fake one). Media would be controlled or left in wonder until people lost interest. It's the best way for "face saving" strategy.
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... written by Tong,
February 15, 2010
Test result coming out now, 20% accuracy. Reporting as "mildly effective" so not worthwhile to use. Testing condition
- 20 times iterations - 4 boxes; one with bomb, three blank boxes. - no double blind cases; such as no bomb at all, more than one bomb in boxes or bomb is with someone or somewhere around but not in boxes.
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... written by jybkk,
February 15, 2010
Test results were "published" today.
The operators had to detect which of the 4 boxes in the room contained the C4 explosive. They found it 4 times out of 20. This is not 20% effective as someone said before: it is 0% effective, since it is even lower than what you can expect to find by pure chance (you have 25% chance to find the good box out of 4)
One one hand, the Prime Minister declares the use of the device has to stop immediately and that inquiries will be made to discover if there were irregularities in the procurement. On another hand, the officials and the media try to "smooth" things down by using ambiguous sentences as: "not effective enough" or "GT200 itself cannot be used alone without help from other devices", implying that it is not a complete scam, just an inadequate tool.
Face saving...
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... written by Tong,
February 16, 2010
Government spokesman claims that GT200's test area was contaminated. Therefore, the test result is bias and not fair the product. Head of forensic department still claim GT-200 is working well though it's not scientifically proven. She still insist on continuously using GT-200 in forensic procedures as it's very effective. Office of Narcotic Control Board which is using "Alpha 6", claims GT-200 is differ from Alpha 6. In the case that media want to test the device, they're welcome.
There are 304 pcs of GT-200 (and Alpha 6) in government departments. About 280 millions Baht spend for scam devices (8.25 millions US Dollar).
Thai army made a press on NBT (Channel 11). The army claim that up until now, nothing could assist them better than GT-200 in bomb detecting. Therefore, They will keep using it as it's the most effective bomb detectors, they have on hand. They also made powerpoint presentation about how GT-200 work. It's seem that GT-200 is powered by Nvidia GT-200 GPU. I wonder if GT-200 could perform SLI, LOL. As I am ATI's fanboy, I hope next release of such bomb detectors would powered by ATI Radeon GPU.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBCslUXAJ-c
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Just Be Blind written by Pickerel,
February 22, 2010
I would like to perhaps propose that a proposal be put in to discuss...
Okay, before that sentence becomes convoluted, let me start again.
I would like to propose a standard protocol for on-site testing of any bomb detection equipment both prior to purchase, and after receipt. Not only should they rely, when making decisions, on data, but they should quickly test the system after purchase in a simple blind trial, to make sure it works. You have done these same trials with dowsers across several countries, so they surely can't take up much of a cop's precious coffee time. Maybe designate a donut hour to it some day. It's as simple as the following: Materials: 10 briefcases (or other items), 2 people (A and B), 1 device to be tested, 1 bomb. Method: 1. Person B leaves person A quite alone, and person A plants the bomb in one of the 10 items. They must not give any hint as to where it is, and perhaps should even jostle each item to make each look 'moved'. 2. Person B returns, and uses the device to 'detect' the bomb. They only get one chance. 3. Repeat steps 1 and 2, 9 more times. 4. Any device succeeding more then 3 successes enters the next round of testing. Such a device is again tested by repeating steps 1 and 2 a total of 10 times. If it succeeds more then 3 times in this part, it may have some validity to it. We're not asking for big numbers here: 3 out of 10. Imagine (other then the dowsers) a device that couldn't even detect 1 in 3 bombs? 5. Having succeeded twice, the item now enters the final phase of scrutiny. A. did it detect in both trials greater then 5 out of 10 bombs? If so, assuming the test was done right (As in no peeking or telling. It's not that hard.), it most likely is a viable device. If, however, it performed only to a lesser extent, the device is tested not 10, but 20 times, and must meet a success rate of at least 6 out of 20. By now, any failing devices have surely been weeded out, leaving only a few of the most effective, so that this too should not take too much time or manpower either.
Finally, they should be reminded that if something does not, in a choice of 1 in 10, succeed at better then 2 in 10 (or if it manages 3 in 10 once, which every so often a random one will), that it may not fare so well when in a situation of detecting 1 bomb from thousands or millions of potential locations or individuals.
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... written by Techowiz,
June 09, 2010
The UK police have finally taken action over this fraud, check out the link for the story:
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